Bee imports post IWD

TooBee... · Sep 30, 2018

Over the past week I've tried to nail down solid evidence (as in numbers, etc.), for the importation of bees after the Isle of White Disease (IWD), in the first couple of decades of the 20thC it's been claimed that up to 90% of AMM died out (some claim as much as 99%, Brother Adams claimed 100%, but this is now considered to be too extreme).

I have come up with several articles that make claims on imports from the continent replenishing apiaries, but no actual figures and certainly nothing even close to hard evidence on the subject.

I'm suspecting that the best I'm going to get is statements made by beekeepers, etc. with first hand experience of bee importation, ie: from their diaries or articles written in their Associations Newsletters, etc. I would settle for that!

Does anyone have any details on this? Or know how I would go about trying to track this information down?

For want of a better word · Oct 1, 2018

I think reference was made to bee importation in Brown's book 1000 years of Devon Beekeeping ??... My library is all cased up at the moment, whilst we have the builders in to refurbish the West wing... so I can not lay my hands on it at this moment.

Yeghes da

madasafish · Oct 1, 2018

It's irrelevant. As they were all imports, they would all have died as being "unsuited to local conditions" ## .... that is if you are gullible and believe some of the statements made.

## some undoubtedly would be in certain parts of the UK.

steve1958 · Oct 1, 2018

Surely it would be easier to assess the total number of UK bees that survived the IWD , and then you will know that everything else was imported.

Without the internet Brother Adam had to rely on first hand experience and contacts that he knew. For him it may have been 100%

B+. · Oct 1, 2018

steve1958 said:
Without the internet Brother Adam had to rely on first hand experience and contacts that he knew. For him it may have been 100%

Indeed it was (https://www.buckfast.org.uk/bees-past-and-present). It must have been horrific. Reading these early records he was facing a nightmare scenario (http://www.pedigreeapis.org/elver/ori/origin-en.html)

foghornleghorn · Oct 1, 2018

B+. said:
Indeed it was (https://www.buckfast.org.uk/bees-past-and-present). It must have been horrific. Reading these early records he was facing a nightmare scenario (http://www.pedigreeapis.org/elver/ori/origin-en.html)

It isnt even beyond modern researchers to be selective with information to suit their own needs/views

TooBee... · Oct 1, 2018

Here's an example of the kind of stuff I'm coming across, below is part of an article from Bedfordshire Beekeepers,

"The Association ceased to exist after 1901, most probably owing to the ravages of the so-called “Isle of Wight Disease”, ...
Some years later the British Bee Journal reported the “first meeting of the Bedfordshire Beekeeper’s Association ... on 2nd July 1909 with ... a life of only seven years, it apparently ceased to exist in 1916
Meanwhile in 1910 the South Bedfordshire Beekeepers Association had been born; had flourished for three years, and in 1913 finally died.
It was to be the privilege of a fourth “Bedfordshire Beekeeper’s Association” to realise the ideal ... This Association- our present Association – was formed in 1922 ...."
https://www.bedsbka.org.uk/about/history/the-association-since-1922/

it is interesting to note that during the years in which the IWD was 'ravaging' bees throughout Britain the Beekeeping Assoc. above had difficulty surviving, possibly an example of the difficult times, adding weight to the claims that there were huge losses sustained by beekeepers during this time.

Brian Bush · Oct 1, 2018

I don't know about imports after IWD but after WW2 my mother dealt with large numbers of packaged bees from Italy.
She left school at 15 and went to work in the local corn chandlers.
During the Spring and Summer she used to go each week and collect the packages of bees that had come from italy at the station. They had traveled by train and took about 5 days to cross the continent.
She took them to the shop and checked each package and released the queen into the box. These had traveled in the box in a cage to give them protection. She had only the protection of a veil and said that they were the calmest bees she ever handled.
When all was well in the box she contacted the purchaser and they would collect on market day.
Our local Buck's mongrels probably have a very large percentage of these Italian bees in their DNA. Unfortunately they are not calm and gentle 70 generations down the line.

Brian Bush · Oct 1, 2018

TooBee... said:
Here's an example of the kind of stuff I'm coming across, below is part of an article from Bedfordshire Beekeepers,

"The Association ceased to exist after 1901, most probably owing to the ravages of the so-called “Isle of Wight Disease”, ...
Some years later the British Bee Journal reported the “first meeting of the Bedfordshire Beekeeper’s Association ... on 2nd July 1909 with ... a life of only seven years, it apparently ceased to exist in 1916
Meanwhile in 1910 the South Bedfordshire Beekeepers Association had been born; had flourished for three years, and in 1913 finally died.
It was to be the privilege of a fourth “Bedfordshire Beekeeper’s Association” to realise the ideal ... This Association- our present Association – was formed in 1922 ...."
https://www.bedsbka.org.uk/about/history/the-association-since-1922/

it is interesting to note that during the years in which the IWD was 'ravaging' bees throughout Britain the Beekeeping Assoc. above had difficulty surviving, possibly an example of the difficult times, adding weight to the claims that there were huge losses sustained by beekeepers during this time.

Do you not think the short existence of these associations was due to WW1. I believe IWD did not ravage English bees until the 1920s. BA did not come to Buckfast until after WW1.

Hivemaker. · Oct 1, 2018

Brian Bush said:
BA did not come to Buckfast until after WW1.

When he was 11, so around 1909/1910, this was before the start WW1.

Brian Bush said:
I believe IWD did not ravage English bees until the 1920s.

Around 1913 at the Abbey, so started elsewhere well before then.

jenkinsbrynmair · Oct 1, 2018

Brian Bush said:
Do you not think the short existence of these associations was due to WW1.

My association, West Glamorgan beekeepers has been going without pause since 1878, Carmarthenshire since not long after (and has since doubled into East and West) quite a few of the others in Wales have been around since the 19th century as well.
Maybe an indicator as to the fact that the bees in our area were not that badly hit as the ones on the East coast of Britain?

TooBee... · Oct 1, 2018

Brian Bush said:
Do you not think the short existence of these associations was due to WW1. I believe IWD did not ravage English bees until the 1920s. BA did not come to Buckfast until after WW1.

Yes, I think WW1 is a better explanation, but the author offered the IWD as a reason, but with no other information to back it up. I thought the IWD didn't really get going until around 1920, but apparently it was rumbling on for years before. Which begs the question of what caused it to stop, and if environmental conditions assisted it in developing, why hasn't it returned - the claim could be made that the survivors were the ones that were immune, or it could be claimed that this immunity was imparted via the larger than normal bee imports from the continent, in line with Brother Adams experience.

Brian, do you know if those bees your mother helped in importing were AML or AMM (for Northern Bee customers), without any additional info. I would assume AML, just out of interested, either way they would have been continental AMM with slightly different genetics.

SDM · Oct 1, 2018

Seem N.West wales was hit as hard as anywherej. This is an extract from the history of the Conwy honey fair.
"The 1913 Fair attracted 68 competitors. Isle of Wight disease had just arrived in North Wales, and was causing large losses of bees. The Honey Fair also included fortune tellers with long flowing hair, who would reveal visions of fortunes beyond the wildest dreams, for the sum of two pence. Real 18 carat gold watches were on sale for a shilling!

In 1914, Britain was at war. The army was occupying the town hall, and prizes for honey were no longer offered. Castle Street was filled with rock stalls and beeswax sold at two shillings per pound. The Fair continued during the Great War, and in 1917 Castle Street was lined with vendors of honey, toffee and earthenware goods. Honey sold at 1s9d per pound. In 1918, Miss Berry was the only beekeeper at the Honey Fair. Miss Berry had only one hive surviving out of 180"

Stiffy · Oct 1, 2018

SDM said:
Seem N.West wales was hit as hard as anywherej. The Honey Fair also included fortune tellers with long flowing hair, who would reveal visions of fortunes beyond the wildest dreams, for the sum of two pence.

Didn't know BIBBA were around at that time...…..sorry couldn't resist and totally off topic
S

Brian Bush · Oct 1, 2018

Brian, do you know if those bees your mother helped in importing were AML or AMM (for Northern Bee customers), without any additional info. I would assume AML, just out of interested, either way they would have been continental AMM with slightly different genetics.
I always assumed they were AML. I was not around at this time but she always referred to them as being calm and yellow. Unfortunately I can no longer ask her as she died before I started to keep bees.

TooBee... · Oct 1, 2018

SDM said:
In 1918, Miss Berry was the only beekeeper at the Honey Fair. Miss Berry had only one hive surviving out of 180"

Ouch!
And I thought hearing of up to 50% losses from Varroa was bad!
Brother Adams lost 99%, she lost 99.44%, I wonder if her surviving Colony was a hybrid, there's no way of knowing, but with so many Hives (180) it's quite possible she may have experimented with a 'high yielding Italian' as advertised in the local bee papers, makes you wonder.

SDM, you don't have any access to what the Beekeeping world looked like in the subsequent years, if their numbers bounced back very quickly it may suggest imports played a part in it.

My gut feeling is that if package bees were imported they may have initially come from beekeepers in Northern France, less distance so less travel costs, and swarms could be collected and sold across the channel, but I'm just guessing.

birdsandbees · Oct 1, 2018

I've read a bit about IOW disease and reports of massive colony loss, as has already been suggested there may be many factors at play, war time losses (beekeepers and bees) transition from Skeps to box hives without the knowledge of managing them, shortages of money, time and Sugar availability to name a few.

research that has been carried out seems to say that the native bees certainly weren't wiped out as was reported but then if you are a bee breeder and seller of queens telling folk that there's no option but to buy your queens as the natives are either all dead or will die would make good business sense.

Hivemaker. · Oct 1, 2018

birdsandbees said:
but then if you are a bee breeder and seller of queens telling folk that there's no option but to buy your queens as the natives are either all dead or will die would make good business sense.

What would they need queens for if their bees were supposed to be all dead.

Murox · Oct 1, 2018

Post IOW disease I have always been given to understand that the "new" imports were mainly of Italian origin but not necessarily A.M.Ligustica per se as thats a sub species. The range of the dark european bee was/is actually quite huge.

Ian123 · Oct 1, 2018

Google up Steele and Brodie and Amm imports, the old boy I started helping in the 80s had a stack of thier old boxes that the French bees arrived in. He started shortly after ww2

Bee imports post IWD

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