Yellow Legged Hornet APP

[Moobee]

It does nothing of the sort. Where's the 'ecological' analysis to support the conclusions of the report? Don't see any prey distribution data or habitat analysis. Just more sensationalism to allow trolls to spread panic.

The distribution seen this year in the UK is commensurate with pre-mated velutina queens being blown across the channel by strong spring winds. Until we have confirmation of propagation in the UK we do not have an established infestation.....just an outbreak which we don't yet know if it has

You have a confirmed established infestation in your neck of the woods do you? The same as Normandy? Where's your bocage hedgerows or similar ecological habitat? You may have similar climate but you are worlds apart ecologically. Let the NBU do its work. If it becomes overwhelmed then you'll have plenty of time to play with traps. Set the traps now and you'll kill off lots of vespines blindly because the probability of you killing any velutina at this juncture is remote. Set monitoring bait stations by all means. If you get a positive hit then revisit your strategy. No harm done either way.

No of course we don’t have an infestation and it would be nice if it stayed that way. The ecology here is a mix of bocage & pastoral farming with hedgerows & coppices, so fairly similar to Northern France, however in Kent, they’re nesting in deep vegetation on the side of a cliff, which seems to indicate that they are very adaptable to whatever terrain they are in (also evidenced by nests in bramble thickets).
As I noted in an earlier post, my traps are not kill traps so can be monitored and bycatch released.
I don’t see the harm in being ready. We are yet to know if any mated queens travelled east or west from Kent or Hampshire. Infested is too late IMHO.

 

[JohnRB]

I made an impulse decision to travel 400 miles from Yorkshire to Bridgewater Somerset this weekend to attend the South West Asian hornet conference

How inspirational and I’m relieved our fantastic NBU are so committed via monitoring, track and trace and gaining support from FERA science and DEFRa to help keep our bees safe.

I’m exhausted from the journey and have so much to reflect on, but will now wait for the DNA analysis from nests killed to be published and the NBU to develop a protocol for beekeepers and volunteers to follow. With just 40 inspectors it’s going to be like the WW2 - your country , bees and pollination services need you!

My biggest take out short term is just how many of us have the new APP on our phones to record and identify potential hornets? I didn’t and felt ashamed but I was honest and said so.

This poll is about educating all beekeepers to download the APP, if not already done so. It’s superb with other species info and help so we beeks don’t go crazy killing beneficial insects

So be honest have you got the App? If not please download it. I’ve attached screenshots and the DEFRA APP brief. Encourage others to do the same please including members of the public

Your NBU, your country and your bees need you!

New app to report Asian hornet sightings

Elaine

Hiya, I've read through most of this thread with great interest. Have I missed something about the DNA analysis? What are they expecting it to reveal?

Thanks

 

[fian]

Hiya, I've read through most of this thread with great interest. Have I missed something about the DNA analysis? What are they expecting it to reveal?

Thanks

Although it is true that all European velutinas originate from the first mother that arrived in Bordeaux in 2004, the rapid expansion and adaptation to new biotopes caused small alterations.
The genetic analysis seeks to discern the possible origin of the nests found, in particular, if there is a relationship between those from one year and those from the previous year. If this happened it would be evident that there is a local population of velutina and queens that have hibernated successfully.

 

[Karol]

If last year's numbers were not a blip. then then NBU are likely to be overwhelmed this year and AH will became established.

Well, a nest on a slightly sheltered cliff can be a ticking time bomb:
A. Sustained growth over the years. One of the largest nests found in Galicia has a diameter of 1.8m (in the attic of a house).
B. Queen issuer.

Back to your sensationalist scaremongering rubbish.

Sustained growth over the years? What utter garbage. The life cycle of a nest in the UK will only ever span 10 months at most. Size of nests is limited to resource which is constrained by competion for prey. Ticking time bomb because it's on the side of a cliff? Really? Exposed to the elements. Strong winds such as those experienced on the sides of cliffs will destroy vespine nests not least because such winds carry workers beyond their navigational maps so that they can't find their way back so depriving nests of labour to bring on brood. A bomb that's not going to tick for long.

If you have velutina nests of 1.8m diameter in Galicia the most likely explanation is that velutina has very little remaining competition with native vespids. More than likely because of human trapping helping to collapse numbers of indigenous vespids.

For your information vespula nests in the UK reasonably frequently reach in excess of 2m but a lot of the diameter of the nest is insulation to protect nests from cold and inclement weather. Velutina doesn't build heavily insulated nests primarily because being a bigger and heavier insect it doesn't have the energy to do so. Velutina isn't built for the UK. Yes we will have outbreaks. Yes those outbreaks need to be managed. But velutina is at a considerable disadvantage in the UK. I repeat the evolutionary point I made earlier. If the UK was naturally suited for velutina, why is it that it doesn't exist here already? Why is it that it isn't spreading further East into central and Eastern Europe for that matter?

Your contributions are not helpful and I trust that beekeepers in the UK have the sense to follow the advice of the NBU, namely be vigilant and monitor, report sightings promptly and let the NBU do their work. I also hope beekeepers don't get hoodwinked into buying and using 'velutina' traps which have singularly failed in contental Europe. And I say this as the manufacturer of a patented highly technical wasp trap.

IF and only IF velutina gets a reproductive foothold in the UK, then there will be time to deploy species specific eradication measures. Measures which continental trap and protection device racketeers despise.

 

[Erichalfbee]

Hiya, I've read through most of this thread with great interest. Have I missed something about the DNA analysis? What are they expecting it to reveal?

Thanks

Whether the nests are related or not.
Related nests imply that the queens have overwintered

 

[fian]

Back to your sensationalist scaremongering rubbish.

Sustained growth over the years? What utter garbage. The life cycle of a nest in the UK will only ever span 10 months at most. Size of nests is limited to resource which is constrained by competion for prey. Ticking time bomb because it's on the side of a cliff? Really? Exposed to the elements. Strong winds such as those experienced on the sides of cliffs will destroy vespine nests not least because such winds carry workers beyond their navigational maps so that they can't find their way back so depriving nests of labour to bring on brood. A bomb that's not going to tick for long.

If you have velutina nests of 1.8m diameter in Galicia the most likely explanation is that velutina has very little remaining competition with native vespids. More than likely because of human trapping helping to collapse numbers of indigenous vespids.

For your information vespula nests in the UK reasonably frequently reach in excess of 2m but a lot of the diameter of the nest is insulation to protect nests from cold and inclement weather. Velutina doesn't build heavily insulated nests primarily because being a bigger and heavier insect it doesn't have the energy to do so. Velutina isn't built for the UK. Yes we will have outbreaks. Yes those outbreaks need to be managed. But velutina is at a considerable disadvantage in the UK. I repeat the evolutionary point I made earlier. If the UK was naturally suited for velutina, why is it that it doesn't exist here already? Why is it that it isn't spreading further East into central and Eastern Europe for that matter?

Your contributions are not helpful and I trust that beekeepers in the UK have the sense to follow the advice of the NBU, namely be vigilant and monitor, report sightings promptly and let the NBU do their work. I also hope beekeepers don't get hoodwinked into buying and using 'velutina' traps which have singularly failed in contental Europe. And I say this as the manufacturer of a patented highly technical wasp trap.

IF and only IF velutina gets a reproductive foothold in the UK, then there will be time to deploy species specific eradication measures. Measures which continental trap and protection device racketeers despise.

ttps://www.gov.uk/government/publications/asian-hornet-uk-sightings/asian-hornet-sightings-recorded-since-2016
It is evident that there is a higher incidence in 2023 than in any other year, in fact, than all the nests found since 2016. Most occur in a localized area.
Regarding the 1.8m nest, this is a specific event (an extreme statistical value). In general, nests in Galicia do not usually exceed 0.7-0.8 m in diameter and usually have 4 or 5 layers of insulation.
I'm really sorry to tell you that you may be wrong, if vespula nests can be so large due to the isolation that prevents VV from developing the same defense system and honestly, its position on a cliff the only thing it can do is facilitate its adaptation.
If, unfortunately, velutina settles in the United Kingdom, you and your trap are already here to save the beekeepers from the "continental gangsters" and if not, I suppose they would wait for the NBU to allow a special authorization to make FC (which curiously may be able to make You win in both scenarios but I, who have no interest in any solution, am the sensationalist and the one who "issues garbage" when I have only given information with articles. Without a doubt it is better to kill the messenger lest users start thinking about hidden interests.

 

[OldFarm]

Hiya, I've read through most of this thread with great interest. Have I missed something about the DNA analysis? What are they expecting it to reveal?

Thanks

Origins of the queen. If all the queens have different genetics they are new introductions, hitch hikers or flew over the channel. If they have common genetics it indicates they have come from a nest here and the queens have overwintered.

 

[madasafish]

Well all I can say is the methods used in Jersey have been effective at killing nests but, of course, not preventing new nest numbers increasing exponentially.#
So to scale up the Jersey strategy - which appears to be the plan for England - is very "brave",

#
Asian hornet nests Jersey

2022 60
2023 335

To accuse anyone of scaremongering when the physical evidence IS scary is VERY brave.

 

[fian]

https://www.kentonline.co.uk/folkes...-descend-on-kent-after-asian-hornet-s-291440/https://www.kentonline.co.uk/folkes...ootage-shows-asian-hornet-eating-wasp-291776/Two web links for discord.

 

[The Poot]

For once I feel sorry for a wasp…..

 

[user 819]

We will all have to see what occurs this year and whether numbers increase two or three fold.

 

[madasafish]

I have just watched Andrew Durhams 's update on Youtube.
He recommends spring trapping and produced stats on nest numbers reduced.

 

[Karol]

Well all I can say is the methods used in Jersey have been effective at killing nests but, of course, not preventing new nest numbers increasing exponentially.#
So to scale up the Jersey strategy - which appears to be the plan for England - is very "brave",

#
Asian hornet nests Jersey

2022 60
2023 335

To accuse anyone of scaremongering when the physical evidence IS scary is VERY brave.

It's not about being brave.

It's about taking the best course of action to protect the UK from infestation.

The present advice is not to spring trap but to monitor, report and let the NBU do its work. Why is that so difficult to adhere to?

It's not helpful to be alarmist if that results in counter productive measures being taken.

So Jersey had 335 nests in 2023 and only 60 in 2022. What does that tell us that is of relevance to the UK? Very little.

Velutina hugs coastlines where inland ecology doesn't support it so no surprise Jersey will favour velutina being as it's a small island.

Jersey is only a stones throw from the French coast so there's a persistant resevoir of velutina to reinfest the island.

As for the jump from 60 to 335 that can also to an extent be explained by storm Noa.

There's no denying Jersey has a problem as does the continent but the problems there are different to what the UK is experiencing.

If the present measures do not work there will be plenty of opportunity to revise and change strategy. Not so easy to recover the situation the other way round which is where the continent is at.

It's not brave to support the NBU, follow their advice and give them grace to do what they need to do. I would call it sensible.

 

[Newbeeneil]

well when I spoke to the RBI who was down there over the summer, she said it wasn't

I was at a lecture where one of the guys who was involved in the track and trace said they were worried about nests in the undergrowth on the cliffs.
That is when I made my remarks about using FC to kill those nests. The idea was dismissed out of hand.

 

[fian]

It's not about being brave.

It's about taking the best course of action to protect the UK from infestation.

The present advice is not to spring trap but to monitor, report and let the NBU do its work. Why is that so difficult to adhere to?

It's not helpful to be alarmist if that results in counter productive measures being taken.

So Jersey had 335 nests in 2023 and only 60 in 2022. What does that tell us that is of relevance to the UK? Very little.

Velutina hugs coastlines where inland ecology doesn't support it so no surprise Jersey will favour velutina being as it's a small island.

Jersey is only a stones throw from the French coast so there's a persistant resevoir of velutina to reinfest the island.

As for the jump from 60 to 335 that can also to an extent be explained by storm Noa.

There's no denying Jersey has a problem as does the continent but the problems there are different to what the UK is experiencing.

If the present measures do not work there will be plenty of opportunity to revise and change strategy. Not so easy to recover the situation the other way round which is where the continent is at.

It's not brave to support the NBU, follow their advice and give them grace to do what they need to do. I would call it sensible.

But what width of coast do we take as a favorable ecological niche?
The distance from Bordeaux to Lyon is 550 km.
The distance from Vigo to Benavente is 300 km.
The distance from Bristol to Kent is 260 km, which means that for practical purposes there is no "unfavorable interior" for Velutina.
Regarding Storm Noa, I think it does not understand the circulation of winds and is clearly different from a tornado. In a storm the winds move away from the eye rotating counterclockwise while in a tornado the wind is dragged towards the eye and lifted to higher layers.
Therefore, in a storm like Noa with its eye to the North of the United Kingdom, the velutinas would be expelled from the island towards the continental coast of the channel, which is the opposite of what is argued.
Do you know why measures in any country regarding biological containment of velutin were a failure? Because to the rulers and authorities involved it seemed like a minor problem until the first death occurred. So that this does not happen again and if NBU does not want to find itself overworked in Kent, it would do well to increase the monitoring devices.

 

[Karol]

I was at a lecture where one of the guys who was involved in the track and trace said they were worried about nests in the undergrowth on the cliffs.
That is when I made my remarks about using FC to kill those nests. The idea was dismissed out of hand.

Which would have been the correct 'official' response.

 

[Karol]

But what width of coast do we take as a favorable ecological niche?
The distance from Bordeaux to Lyon is 550 km.
The distance from Vigo to Benavente is 300 km.
The distance from Bristol to Kent is 260 km, which means that for practical purposes there is no "unfavorable interior" for Velutina.
Regarding Storm Noa, I think it does not understand the circulation of winds and is clearly different from a tornado. In a storm the winds move away from the eye rotating counterclockwise while in a tornado the wind is dragged towards the eye and lifted to higher layers.
Therefore, in a storm like Noa with its eye to the North of the United Kingdom, the velutinas would be expelled from the island towards the continental coast of the channel, which is the opposite of what is argued.
Do you know why measures in any country regarding biological containment of velutin were a failure? Because to the rulers and authorities involved it seemed like a minor problem until the first death occurred. So that this does not happen again and if NBU does not want to find itself overworked in Kent, it would do well to increase the monitoring devices.

So that we are clear. You are advocating wholesale spring trapping across the whole of southern England?

 

[madasafish]

t brave to support the NBU, follow their advice and give them grace to do what they need to do. I would call it sensible.

The NBU policy at present is a bottleneck one. Everything done by the The NBU . They plan to combat AH in England with a workforce roughly equal to four times the Jersey AH team.
It is viable in Jersey or Kent, not in Southern England. Sorry not true. Jersey appears lost already/
All the conditions for warmer weather exist: Global Warming, El Nino. which make Southern England a paradise.
And the area of England at 130k Sq Kms is over 1,000 times that of Jersey at 113 sq Kms.

Jersey is lost.to AH. There are 24 volunteers basically full time fighting AH in Jersey. Scaled up to the UK, that means 24,000 people for England. The NBU has 82 in total. The gaps in the English countryside where there are few inhabitants means establishment is inevitable.

It would be risible if not so obviously doomed.

 

[fian]

So that we are clear. You are advocating wholesale spring trapping across the whole of southern England?

If I decided for the NBU:
A1. High risk area (one in which more than 30 nests per county were found the previous year). Capture process in spring by volunteers (2 traps per volunteer that are checked on alternate days). In the case of catching a VV, the NBU is notified and will proceed to collect it.
A2. Risk area (between 10 and 30 nests per county). Capture process in spring entrusted to beekeepers (2 traps per beekeeper placed 100 m from the apiaries). The capture of VV is also reported to the NBU.
B. Surveillance Zones (less than 10 nests per county). Without capture, alerts and meetings with the population are issued to report VV sightings.
C. Nest removal program as it has been doing every time a sighting occurs regardless of zone A or B.
Finally, and based on the investigations carried out, the capture phase is carried out on 4 dates.
Protein bait from February 1 to April 15 and from September 1 to December 15.
Energy bait from May 15 to July 1 and from August 15 to November 1.
The second year the dates would vary depending on the captures made and the window from April 15 to May 15 would correspond to the removal of the vespinas in order to minimize the risk of unwanted capture.

 

[fian]

The NBU policy at present is a bottleneck one. Everything done by the The NBU . They plan to combat AH in England with a workforce roughly equal to four times the Jersey AH team.
It is viable in Jersey or Kent, not in Southern England. Sorry not true. Jersey appears lost already/
All the conditions for warmer weather exist: Global Warming, El Nino. which make Southern England a paradise.
And the area of England at 130k Sq Kms is over 1,000 times that of Jersey at 113 sq Kms.

Jersey is lost.to AH. There are 24 volunteers basically full time fighting AH in Jersey. Scaled up to the UK, that means 24,000 people for England. The NBU has 82 in total. The gaps in the English countryside where there are few inhabitants means establishment is inevitable.

It would be risible if not so obviously doomed.

I agree, the current team is clearly insufficient. That is why it would be advisable for the NBU to use a system of three clearly differentiated levels.
A. Volunteers who control their traps and can carry out information work on the population.
B. Beekeepers to protect their apiaries.
C. Technical teams for nest removal and research. They should configure 5 for high risk areas, 3 for risk areas and at least 1 for each county in the United Kingdom.