Worker laying drone

[Bee’s Knees]

Hi

Just notice a very similar thread but we are a bit later in the year now.

I have two hives, and I am absolute beginner from last year.
First real inspection today after winter. One hive is absolutely with bursting bees with frame after frame of freshly capped brood and eggs/lave.
The other hive has a lot less bees, still a reasonable amount but nothing like the other. There is absolutely no capped bread and only random bits of drone brood. Not sure how long they have been without a queen but there does seem to still be quite a lot bees so don’t think it has been too long.
I placed a frame of eggs/brood from my full hive into this hive but then an hour later I decided to order a mated queen.

Two questions,

1. As they are hopelessly queeenless and I have now ordered a queen, I take it should remove that frame quickly as I don’t want them started to build their own queen? Although will the extra capped brood help?

2. Was I right to order a new queen?

Thanks

Using WBC 14x12

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

As they are hopelessly queeenless

How do you know that?

Was I right to order a new queen

not really

You don't know they're queenless, just that there is no brood.
A test frame should have been your first move, if they build QC's they are queenless
If they don't build QC's - you still don't know

 

[Ian123]

Who’s supplying the new queen and when..most early 1s are booked up fast.
If your new queen is some time off I’d be inclined to shake the drone laying hive out and when queen arrives make up a nuc to introduce her to from the strong hive.

 

[Amari]

Hi

Just notice a very similar thread but we are a bit later in the year now.

I have two hives, and I am absolute beginner from last year.
First real inspection today after winter. One hive is absolutely with bursting bees with frame after frame of freshly capped brood and eggs/lave.
The other hive has a lot less bees, still a reasonable amount but nothing like the other. There is absolutely no capped bread and only random bits of drone brood. Not sure how long they have been without a queen but there does seem to still be quite a lot bees so don’t think it has been too long.
I placed a frame of eggs/brood from my full hive into this hive but then an hour later I decided to order a mated queen.

Two questions,

1. As they are hopelessly queeenless and I have now ordered a queen, I take it should remove that frame quickly as I don’t want them started to build their own queen? Although will the extra capped brood help?

2. Was I right to order a new queen?

Thanks

Using WBC 14x12

Drone laying worker?

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

Drone laying worker?

can they lay anything else?

 

[Bee’s Knees]

Haha sorry yes, a laying worker.

The mated queen is from Black mountain and arriving on Thursday.

I went through every frame twice, and couldn’t see the queen so I am pretty sure they are queenless. I actually re-marked her myself last year, let’s just say she stands out…

When should I check the frame for queen building activity?
If they are building a queen cell should I knock it down and remove the frame and put it back in the other hive and then slowly introduce the bought queen?

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

When should I check the frame for queen building activity?

give it a day or two

 

[ericbeaumont]

random bits of drone brood

Eggs?

If you have laying workers, a bought queen is a waste of money: they'll kill her. Shake out and make up numbers by splitting the strong colony in summer.

If you have a DLQ, you must find her.

 

[ericbeaumont]

mated queen is from Black mountain and arriving on Thursday

Make up a nuc now from the strong Q+ colony. Add two shakes of nurse bees: light shake to remove flyers, heavy shake over the nuc to dislodge nurse bees.

Replace frames by giving the strong Q+ colony foundation on the edge of the nest.

On Thursday shake bees off the nuc frames and remove anything looking like a QC. Introduce Q according to BMH guide.

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

I'd make it up just after the new queen hits the doormat, put the queen in immediately but cover the candy plug until the day after, then just leave them to it.

 

[jeff33]

Yes, agreed with what has been said. Don't introduce the new queen to the doomed hive. Make up a nuc from the good one for this queen.

Better still, cancel the ordered queen (it's imported anyway so no loss there), shake the doomed hive out and they will go in your stronger one.

 

[Bee’s Knees]

Thank you for the advice.

If I shake out the current bees. Can I make a nuc up in that hive or does it have to be in an actual nuc box?

 

[jeff33]

You could make it in that hive but you will have to put a dummy board, too much space and still cold

 

[Bee’s Knees]

So after the advice above I have now done some of the reading I should have done before the itchy trigger finger on the new queen order and feel very foolish.

But I still have a new queen coming…

If I shake all the bees out and then use the same hive as my nuc with a dummy board will laying workers not just find their way back to the same hive and then kill the new queen?

 

[Ian123]

Better still, cancel the ordered queen (it's imported anyway so no loss there), shake the doomed hive out and they will go in your stronger one.

Your a bitter man

 

[Ian123]

If I shake all the bees out and then use the same hive as my nuc with a dummy board will laying workers not just find their way back to the same hive and then kill the new queen?

No more so than the bees in the nuc you’ve made up in fact their addition may be a bonus as they’ll make up for any that return to the strong hive.

 

[Bee’s Knees]

Apologies for my ignorance.

But what changes, why the do the laying workers who fly back to the same hive (which is now acting a nuc) not try to kill the queen?
What suddenly stops them laying after being shaken out?

 

[jeff33]

No more so than the bees in the nuc you’ve made up in fact their addition may be a bonus as they’ll make up for any that return to the strong hive.

I guess the only tricky bit will be to deal with the shake out and making up the nuc as the same time as it will be mayhem with all the lost bees flying around.

I would move the hive away from its original position to do the shake out and make up the nuc and put it back afterwards.

Your queen will be caged, leave the tab on for a day and remove afterwards.

 

[JamezF]

Apologies for my ignorance.

But what changes, why the do the laying workers who fly back to the same hive (which is now acting a nuc) not try to kill the queen?
What suddenly stops them laying after being shaken out?

If you put the "nuc" in a different location, particularly perhaps on the opposite side of the remaining hive, laying workers are probably unlikely to return to it. I suspect that the actual workers that are laying may be doomed anyhow. If they go back to the Q+ hive they may well be killed, but if they go back to the queenless nuc before the house bees put in it actually realise they're queenless they may also be killed.

I'm guessing to a certain extent however. I've only ever had one LW colony where I've known that was the case and I only realised when it was far too late to do anything about it. The presence of the queen (and her pheromones) is what stops workers from developing to the point that they can lay, but once they've started laying I'm not entirely sure what goes on when the rest of the colony thinks they have another healthy queen on board and accept her. I imagine that their life expectancy drops quite dramatically.

James

 

[Bee’s Knees]

No more so than the bees in the nuc you’ve made up in fact their addition may be a bonus as they’ll make up for any that return to the strong hive.