Winter Losses?

[TooBee...]

...my mistake with the Queen in question was trying to fire her through the hive entrance with a catapult as the hive was too angry to go near..

They're just a bunch of little girls...

I've heard that when beeks are inspecting their A.m.scutellata hives in Africa, they do so at night ... maybe a night raid would have been better?

 

[Podilia]

Your British Mediterranian winter allows you to open hives and add food, also the bees rear brood and sometimes can even fly so you have to control their stores. If we had had your winter and our summer we would have been Italy or Spain.
My winter is much colder and snowy this year. I have already lost two colonies. They had some brood patterns infested with mites. The classical thing. Usually brood is not desirable in this time of year but colonies having some problems try to rear new bees and survive. In most cases it ends badly. Opening hives and adding fondant are not common practice, especially if hives have big caps of snow and ice. It's not easy to open them without disturbing bees. And nobody knows how it could affect them. So I listened them with a tube and decided that all others are good, even the small 3 frames one. Anyway in February quick control of clusters is needed.

 

[birdsandbees]

Your British Mediterranian winter allows you to open hives and add food, also the bees rear brood and sometimes can even fly so you have to control their stores. If we had had your winter and our summer we would have been Italy or Spain.
My winter is much colder and snowy this year. I have already lost two colonies. They had some brood patterns infested with mites. The classical thing. Usually brood is not desirable in this time of year but colonies having some problems try to rear new bees and survive. In most cases it ends badly. Opening hives and adding fondant are not common practice, especially if hives have big caps of snow and ice. It's not easy to open them without disturbing bees. And nobody knows how it could affect them. So I listened them with a tube and decided that all others are good, even the small 3 frames one. Anyway in February quick control of clusters is needed.

Regarding feeding if needed in winter, could you not prepare the hives before hand by setting it up with a crown board that has a covered hole and an insulated empty super or Eke? that way if they felt light it would be quick and minimally disruptive to add some fondant.

Michael Palmer seems to have no issues wen opening up hives to feed in winter, even with a covering of snow, he could he could tell you whether it affects them

 

[Tiro Turbidus]

Dead bees on snow

Did an external check of my two hives today (-3.5 degrees C - so not inclined to open them). There were half a dozen dead bees lying on top of the snow that's been lying for 4 days. It's my first winter and I wondered whether it's usual to find small numbers of dead bees outside.

 

[Tiro Turbidus]

Too quiet in there

Your British Mediterranian winter allows you to open hives and add food, also the bees rear brood and sometimes can even fly so you have to control their stores. If we had had your winter and our summer we would have been Italy or Spain.
My winter is much colder and snowy this year. I have already lost two colonies. They had some brood patterns infested with mites. The classical thing. Usually brood is not desirable in this time of year but colonies having some problems try to rear new bees and survive. In most cases it ends badly. Opening hives and adding fondant are not common practice, especially if hives have big caps of snow and ice. It's not easy to open them without disturbing bees. And nobody knows how it could affect them. So I listened them with a tube and decided that all others are good, even the small 3 frames one. Anyway in February quick control of clusters is needed.

It's my first winter (with 2 colonies) and there are snowcaps on the hives, so thanks for the advice about that. I last checked the food on 1st Jan and there were about 2kg of fondant left on each. I'm in the habit of listening with a stethoscope and usually there's a quiet hum - today, nothing, or nothing that I can hear. What's your experience of listening in? Have you found some days with no detectable hum?

 

[SDM]

It's my first winter (with 2 colonies) and there are snowcaps on the hives, so thanks for the advice about that. I last checked the food on 1st Jan and there were about 2kg of fondant left on each. I'm in the habit of listening with a stethoscope and usually there's a quiet hum - today, nothing, or nothing that I can hear. What's your experience of listening in? Have you found some days with no detectable hum?

Some would say to knock on the box and listen , but thats a daft idea, probably encouraging bees to leave the cluster in temps that mean they dont make it back.
The truth is you are not going to know if you have a colony that's made it, til you open them up in spring.
All you can do is ensure they dont run out of food and leave them in peace to do their thing .
Probably the hardest beekeeping lesson for me was learning when to leave them alone

 

[SDM]

Did an external check of my two hives today (-3.5 degrees C - so not inclined to open them). There were half a dozen dead bees lying on top of the snow that's been lying for 4 days. It's my first winter and I wondered whether it's usual to find small numbers of dead bees outside.

Perfectly normal, a few bees die every day, when they can the undertakers move them out. That the colony is taking care of the business of clearing out the dead is really a good sign.

 

[madasafish]

It's my first winter (with 2 colonies) and there are snowcaps on the hives, so thanks for the advice about that. I last checked the food on 1st Jan and there were about 2kg of fondant left on each. I'm in the habit of listening with a stethoscope and usually there's a quiet hum - today, nothing, or nothing that I can hear. What's your experience of listening in? Have you found some days with no detectable hum?

The only time I notice a hum is when vaping with ApiBioxal..Rest of the time they sound dead.

Clear crownboards mean you can take the roof off and see the bees without disturbing them - very reassuring... Or insert the varroa board (if not already in) clean it and look at detritus in a week's time. You will usually see lines of wax cappings under combs and other detritus... plus an odd mite. Nothing = bad news

 

[Goran]

Regarding feeding if needed in winter, could you not prepare the hives before hand by setting it up with a crown board that has a covered hole and an insulated empty super or Eke? that way if they felt light it would be quick and minimally disruptive to add some fondant.

Michael Palmer seems to have no issues wen opening up hives to feed in winter, even with a covering of snow, he could he could tell you whether it affects them

No worries, bees warm cluster not the space around. Anyway is minus temp in the hive already. I only try not to shake it as jukebox. Never had any issues as long as I beekeep with winter feeding while snow around and on top and small minus temps.. Of course I lift crown board, place fondant directly on top bar and close.. Not some long " observing"..
I still didn't gave first fondant, in February most likely..
Winter losses.. so far 1 hive or for ones into statistics 1,6129..%

 

[SDM]

The only time I notice a hum is when vaping with ApiBioxal..Rest of the time they sound dead.

Clear crownboards mean you can take the roof off and see the bees without disturbing them - very reassuring... Or insert the varroa board (if not already in) clean it and look at detritus in a week's time. You will usually see lines of wax cappings under combs and other detritus... plus an odd mite. Nothing = bad news

Doesnt tell you their condition though even if you are seeing brood cappings it could be laying workers or dlq.. youll get those answers at first inspection and still wont know for sure if theyve made it til you see them expanding/hit crossover.

 

[madasafish]

Doesnt tell you their condition though even if you are seeing brood cappings it could be laying workers or dlq.. youll get those answers at first inspection and still wont know for sure if theyve made it til you see them expanding/hit crossover.

Yes

That's why I overwinter queens... for such eventualities..

 

[Tiro Turbidus]

Yes. I was afraid that was probably the position. Anxious wait. I'll have another listen on a warmer day and hear how that goes. Thanks too for the reassurance re dead bees on the snow. Next year I'm going to put in perspex or glass crown board for winter so that I can at least check on the food without fully opening up. maybe see some movement as well

 

[Finman]

Yes. I was afraid that was probably the position. Anxious wait. I'll have another listen on a warmer day and hear how that goes. Thanks too for the reassurance re dead bees on the snow. Next year I'm going to put in perspex or glass crown board for winter so that I can at least check on the food without fully opening up. maybe see some movement as well

Let them be in peace. Bees react on you disturbance and brake their cluster. A bad habit.

 

[SDM]

Yes

That's why I overwinter queens... for such eventualities..

I wouldn't waste a queen on a colony that had laying workers or dlq. In spring. Even uniting when workers were dealt with and queen removed would probably just be a burden on another colony. Shake them out and let them beg entrance elsewhere. Ive plenty of nucs to replace any ive get.

 

[For want of a better word]

I wouldn't waste a queen on a colony that had laying workers or dlq. In spring. Even uniting when workers were dealt with and queen removed would probably just be a burden on another colony. Shake them out and let them beg entrance elsewhere. Ive plenty of nucs to replace any ive get.

That is interesting... I have often wondered if early "packages" were made up with largely"over wintered" bees that could have come from colonies with a dlq or laying workers....

Why do you think uniting could be such is a burden?

 

[SDM]

That is interesting... I have often wondered if early "packages" were made up with largely"over wintered" bees that could have come from colonies with a dlq or laying workers....

Why do you think uniting could be such is a burden?

Because they are winter bees that will have had their useful days used up raising drones( labour intensive)
By spring theyd be little more than corpses for the undertakers to carry out.
If theyre in decent condition theyll get into another colony anyway.

 

[For want of a better word]

Because they are winter bees that will have had their useful days used up raising drones( labour intensive)
By spring theyd be little more than corpses for the undertakers to carry out.
If theyre in decent condition theyll get into another colony anyway.

OK... so what are you thoughts on "packages"?????

 

[SDM]

OK... so what are you thoughts on "packages"?????

The only packages ive seen certainly weren't made up that way and nobody that did would sell any twice.
What on earth makes you think theyre made up of "leftovers" from failed colonies, when "early" for us is well into season where most packages come from ?

 

[Millet]

Yes. I was afraid that was probably the position. Anxious wait. I'll have another listen on a warmer day and hear how that goes. Thanks too for the reassurance re dead bees on the snow. Next year I'm going to put in perspex or glass crown board for winter so that I can at least check on the food without fully opening up. maybe see some movement as well

Try having a little listen with a stethoscope on all four sides of the hive at different levels...you will hear them eventually.. you should hear a faint humming noise not the roar type of noise after vaping..however i have found that all the colonies do not emit sound in this way..my theory is that the cluster is right in the middle of the hive when you can not pick any sound up...? .

 

[Podilia]

Regarding feeding if needed in winter, could you not prepare the hives before hand by setting it up with a crown board that has a covered hole and an insulated empty super or Eke? that way if they felt light it would be quick and minimally disruptive to add some fondant.

Crown board with a hole is not used here. I don't think they could take food through the hole. Most beekeepers (me too) have a kind of thick cloth instead of a crown board. Additional food (solid honey, fondant or a comb of honey) is placed just on the top bars of frames under the cloth. The cluster slowly moves upward and at least can take food there.

Michael Palmer seems to have no issues wen opening up hives to feed in winter, even with a covering of snow, he could he could tell you whether it affects them

I feel nervous when I see bees on snow and out of a cluster. Now the roofs is tightly connected by ice to the boxes. When I think about open them it makes me unhappy As Finman said disturbed bees break a cluster. They also can suddenly defecate. But I often lost colonies because of starvation. Just adding them some honey could have save them.
It would be interesting to read Mr Palmer's opinion. I also have heard that queens can lost the ability to lay eggs if they exposed to cold in winter. It's true that sometimes in spring I have a couple of good looking queens but not laying eggs.