Winter losses 2009 -10

[oliver90owner]

Colonies send out a few experienced foragers to locate nectar/pollen resources. They are called 'scout bees'. So I would doubt that all the foragers would waste effort searching for forage indiscriminately; and secondly, unless adequate returns are available, they won't be sent of on a 'wild goose chase' for less food than the energy used in doing it!

Unless they are stupid bees!

I would likely go with a damaged/failed queen too late for replacement, but it could be anything really.

My one failure in the autumn (not a winter loss) was down to no brood, either no queen or just no brood. Lots of stores (no brood to feed), but dead all the same.

Regards, RAB

 

[johna]

One of our beginners had a hive of bees which she purchased from a local who has given up beekeeping.This colony was purchased late in the season but failed to prosper.It was fed in the autumn but died out this winter.On examination, dead brood was seen together with dead bees.Frames were sent for examination here in Scotland and AFB was found to be the cause.AFB is currently rife up here at the moment and is thought to have been present in some apiaries for 2 years or more.EFB has also been found .The first outbreak to be discovered was in the apiaries belonging to professional beekeepers who are very experienced.Despite beekeepers attending courses run by the Scottish agricultural Colleges,many instances of AFB and EFB have gone undetected by "amateur" beekeepers and professionals alike.Also Varroa Destructor attacks ,whilst held under control using Oxalic acid ,Bayvarol and the like has led to the spread of all sorts of viral infections which are very debilitating to the bee populations.I'm sure a lot of "winter losses" are down to bees suffering viral infections rather than being underfed or becoming chilled.Most beekeepers I think are aware of the importance of maintaining adequate stores.If during late summer/autumn you find "crawlers" or bees with wing displacement or distortion the you can be pretty sure of a virus-much more likely than poisoning or some other cause.The colony that such bees came from will quickly lose its flying bees or the bees will die "in house" over the winter and so the colony will be doomed.

 

[Tom Bick]

Cheers Rab and Chris

On my inspection of the colony it had no dead brood in any of the frames am I right in thinking that this may well be a good indication of a failed queen as the colony dwindled brood may well have being left to chill.

I suppose its all part of building experience at the end of the day

 

[johna]

Tom don't forget the queen in the swarm would have been an old queen and could have just died from old age.Did you see any queen cups on the frames which might suggest an attempt at superceedure?.

 

[MuswellMetro]

Cheers Rab and Chris

On my inspection of the colony it had no dead brood in any of the frames am I right in thinking that this may well be a good indication of a failed queen as the colony dwindled brood may well have being left to chill.

I suppose its all part of building experience at the end of the day

Tom

what Bees were they ?gold italians, Carnies ,buckfast or mongrel blacks? . i have heard our BKA has lost lots of goldies this year

what ever has happened, and i suspect mild November has exhausted the Bees,and not enough left t keep warm and laying , perhaps they needed a pollen subsititute and light feed,

i know one thing, Early Nucs in London/SE are going to be very expensive if the lossess keep mounting

 

[oliver90owner]

lost lots of goldies

Foreigners, come over with just shorts and tea shirts. What do you expect as soon as the weather turns 'British'!

Was there another thread about imported queens, or was it 'good tempered queens'?

These losses will certainly go a little way to reduce so much foreign gene diversity fouling up the local mongrels.

Not a good position for those beekeepers whose losses amount to more than half, but it should be a warning to the inexperienced new beeks and help them avoid these sort of troubles. It demonstrates quite clearly that experience can always be ignored for the sake of a quick return. Choice of queen stock needs very careful consideration.

Regards, RAB

 

[Chris B]

A significant problem with some non-native types is their appetite and the fact they tend to overwinter large colonies, so their demise is often starvation rather than chilling. 3 gallons of autumn syrup isn't always enough! I've got the T-shirt.
As far as queen failure dwindling, they're no better or worse than anything else.

 

[Poly Hive]

I am going to honest here as usual.

I HAD to buy imported bees as it was impossible to find for sale sufficient numbers of local bees.

Am I alone in this? No.

So the rather down the nose attitude here is a bit precious. Until BIBBA get their act together, and having not seen much sign of that over the last 20 odd years I am not holding my breath, who is going to produce these local bee nucs that every one seems to want.

Personally I am buying in AMM queens to at least get my operation back to black bees at least even if they are not native per se while I carry on trying to source some local AMM material to work with.

For donkeys years this attitude of imports... has been going on but precious sign of the actions needed to combat it have happened. Reminds me of talking a good job.....

PH

 

[Tom Bick]

Tom don't forget the queen in the swarm would have been an old queen and could have just died from old age.Did you see any queen cups on the frames which might suggest an attempt at superceedure?.

Hi John

The queen was a 2008 queen and of Carniolan extraction I never checked every frame so not able to say for definate that queen cups/cells are present the other more experienced beekeeper that took a look also reported nothing untoward other than lack of bees, surprisingly this hive once moved to its new location had very few drones and I never found a queen cup that always surprised me on each inspection. It was a small swarm that built up fast that is probably the Carniolan influence

I am happy with what Rab and Chris that perhaps the queen failed and they where unable to react and the colony was in decline even though it looked in good shape.

I saw brood in the frames on my 2nd to last inspection but did I see eggs? at what stage of development was the brood? the brood I saw may have being a 2+ weeks old that may have being the last egg at end October early November with the bees being active during this time reducing the life expectancy of the colony.

It was still surprising to see so few bees left in the hive but to a more experienced beekeeper perhaps not , a bit of experience earned.

 

[Hivemaker.]

May be a good idea to check any deadouts for nosema before using any of the combs again,plus check any live colonys in the same apairy,nosema can cause queens to stop laying if they are infected,also workers lose the ability to feed brood,or even themselves properly.
Oxalic trickled on bee's with a bad nosema infection can also be the last straw for them,no idea why,but i have found it to be so.

 

[Finman]

A significant problem with some non-native types is their appetite and the fact they tend to overwinter large colonies, so their demise is often starvation rather than chilling. 3 gallons of autumn syrup isn't always enough! I've got the T-shirt.
As far as queen failure dwindling, they're no better or worse than anything else.

Non native is not a point. We have none native bees and still they live well on polar circle.

30 years ago in Finland hives were 1/3 of modern hives. Folks did not selected queens, they swarmed when they came to certain size. 2 frame boxes were enough to the hive.

When this kind of beekeeper get a queen which use those 2 boxes only for brood, he was in troubles. They called them "meat hives". They were not breeded for "native beekeeping" they were breeded to get living from bees.

One guy wrote that he bought 10 packages from New Zealand and all hives died next winter.

This one basic in beekeeping: to get suitable strain. That is not sellers fault if a buyer buy wrong origin bees.

And most of beekeepers understand not a bid of bee breeding. They allways have the best bees, what ever others have. They are like own garden potatoes:THE BEST!


Only comparing different strains you know what are good. And comparing takes several years.

 

[Tom Bick]

Thanks Hivemaker

The hive had a bit of evidence that pointed towards Nonsema but not that bad
and I as a precaution put Fumidil B in the syrup I was not aware of nonsema at the time of feeding syrup and understand this is considered good practice but may have being the wrong thing to do and also the dose may have being to weak.
I must also confess that I may not have being looking that hard as a reasonably inexperienced beekeeper I tend to look for the obvious signs good brood pattern with nothing untoward healthy looking bees and brood and clean frames, having not being shown what a case of nonsema looks like other than books I may have missed the signs.The one thing we didn't do was oxalic acid.
The frames are being melted down and cleaned and the hive scorched.

 

[Hivemaker.]

Tom
Not really much more you could do,if there was a chance they had nosema ceranae then there are apparently no visible outward signs,can only be detected by microscopic examination,and even then its difficult to distiguish beetween the two.

 

[Stiffy]

lost lots of goldies

Foreigners, come over with just shorts and tea shirts. What do you expect as soon as the weather turns 'British'!

Was there another thread about imported queens, or was it 'good tempered queens'?

These losses will certainly go a little way to reduce so much foreign gene diversity fouling up the local mongrels.

Not a good position for those beekeepers whose losses amount to more than half, but it should be a warning to the inexperienced new beeks and help them avoid these sort of troubles. It demonstrates quite clearly that experience can always be ignored for the sake of a quick return. Choice of queen stock needs very careful consideration.

Regards, RAB

I have every sympathy when people lose their stock, it must be crushing!

Last year I was talking to a well respected beek and she was advising me that as we are now treating bees with any number of chemicals for varroa etc we are putting the hive under a lot more pressure than in the past and we should be replacing our queens every 2 years to ensure that the colony survives. I will be taking her advice and replace my queens every 2 years.

At present I have 5 which seem to have gone through winter okay and all have been treated and fed the same way. Four of my hives have local bees and 1 are Carniolians. Although I have not opened any hives yet the Carnolians seem to be the strongest and are out flying and collecting pollen like there is no tomorrow. However having heard the problems with 2nd generation Carniolians I will not be breeding from this hive. I bought some bees from another forum member and they are so gentle and easy to handle, these will make up my future stock or until I find something better.
It is very easy to jump to conclusions regarding imported queens being unsuitable for our climate but much depends on the breeder, in another country or just down the road.
Cheers
Stiffy

 

[Bcrazy]

Out of 25 that went into winter I have lost one due to starvation MY FAULT
the others all have been given plenty of fondant as they have been out flying will need to check again soon as the weather has not been kind enough to let them out for the last 10 days.
My hive that I lost was a smallish one going into winter now this has taught me a lesson DO NOT try to winter small colonies amalgamate with another small or larger colony is the only way.

Regards;

 

[sherwood]

Out of 25 that went into winter I have lost one due to starvation MY FAULT
the others all have been given plenty of fondant as they have been out flying will need to check again soon as the weather has not been kind enough to let them out for the last 10 days.
My hive that I lost was a smallish one going into winter now this has taught me a lesson DO NOT try to winter small colonies amalgamate with another small or larger colony is the only way.

Regards;

congrats beecrazy thats a well below average contrition rate you are obviously doing things right perhaps you should update your profile for the number of hives now unless you are considering selling them

 

[sherwood]

My hive that I lost was a smallish one going into winter now this has taught me a lesson DO NOT try to winter small colonies amalgamate with another small or larger colony is the only way.

Regards;

You can get small colonies through winter by putting a swarm board above an existing hive and hiving them above this cutting down the amount of space they require to heat by removing the 2 outermost frames from each side and inserting some thick polystyrene down each side. The lower colony helps heat the upper colony.
If you had 2 weak colonies you could house them above the same lower hive in 2 nucs under one roof. But given the number of hives you are running you know all this but perhaps others dont.

 

[Hawklord]

You can get small colonies through winter by putting a swarm board above an existing hive and hiving them above this cutting down the amount of space they require to heat by removing the 2 outermost frames from each side and inserting some thick polystyrene down each side. The lower colony helps heat the upper colony.
If you had 2 weak colonies you could house them above the same lower hive in 2 nucs under one roof.

Can you explain what a swarm board is please? Also if using this set up is it still possible to feed the lower colony fondant?

 

[MuswellMetro]

Can you explain what a swarm board is please? Also if using this set up is it still possible to feed the lower colony fondant?

i think they mean these

http://website.lineone.net/~dave.cushman/natsplit.html

 

[Bcrazy]

Hi Members,
Stiffy, you mentioned that a lady beekeeper has given you some advice about changing your queens every 2 years. WHY? I have queens that are three coming on 4 years old and they are still doing the business, so why would I have to change them every 2 years? If your queen is working Ok after 2 years then why change her for possibly a duffer. I change my queens when and if I see there is some abnormality in the laying cycle. Also I watch very carefully the temperament of my bees and as long as they are behaving as I want then I leave alone why interfere? Just on the say of other beekeepers. I am not for one minuet saying your friend is wrong if it suits her style of beekeeping I know and understand why beekeepers change queens on a 2 yearly basis.

Regards;