Winter 21/22 Stores use

[elainemary]

I'd be interested to hear what your average colony stores use has been this winter, if you measure, rather than heft.

I'm based in Yorkshire, have quite dark bees i.e. local mongrels, rather than a particular strain.

This winter seems pretty consistent with the last 2 winters. I weigh all colonies at the end of each month from end Sept. I'm not near to any ivy and nectar flow tends to curtail from end Sept. I know the weight of empty equipment, so I calculate stores used, including any fondant given, by end of March. This year I took measurements around 3rd week in March as there was the start of a small flow when we had the warm weather. I'm assuming any nectar flow will be consumed in cooler weather early April but I'll assess again at first spring inspection.

Here's my results to date for this last Winter Oct-March:

Overall colony usage, across 10 colonies in full sized hives (BB and nadired super) 13.4kg (29lb) 1 Oct - 23 March.
Average WBCs 12.9kg (6 colonies)
Average Polyhive 14.2kg (4 colonies)

Plus average double Nucs (4 colonies) 10kg

Interesting that colonies in my coolest apiary at 1000ft consumed on average 12.7kg vs my warmest apiary at c300ft consumed 14.2kg

How does this compare with your findings, if you measure? Or, compared to your historical knowledge of what your colonies consume. I'd be interested in understanding how frugal (or not) my colonies are

 

[Erichalfbee]

I wish I could help. I’ve looked inside all my colonies and both black and orange bees have at least two full frames of stores spare. So that’s around 16lb out of around 40 going into winter. Not much difference between any of the colonies irrespective of lineage.

 

[Parsonage Bees]

Fed some of mine up to the end of October. Weights rose last week for the first time. Measured by lifting one side with a luggage scale and double.

November 2nd - March 23rd between 4.5kg (10lb) and 8kg (18lb) 6.3kg (14lb) weight drop.
This is similar to 2019-2020.

Wooden BB and 1/2 format (with just roof insulation) for 5 of them plus one double brood. Local mongrels. Sheltered garden. Not looked through them yet. Not given any fondant but did crack a couple of crown boards on hives that worried me.
I think they are pretty frugal !!

.. . . . Ben

 

[Beedogg]

I'm a beginner, going into my first full season with 3x WBC colonies, two of which were swarms taken in May last year, and one was a split from one of those swarms. All seem to have survived the winter (so far). I did an inspection on a warm day 10 days ago and found all three queens present and correct; all appeared to be laying well.

I've been weighing for a few months now. All of my hives weigh about 42kg now (so, around 12 kg of stores if one assumes an empty WBC hive weight of around 30kgs. I had fondant on each all winter but I took the unused fondant off a few weeks ago because I was concerned that I might be encouraging the bees to over-fill the BB. At the same time I also put supers on two of the hives (one had a super full of stores left on from last year) not because I was expecting any sort of a flow but because I wanted to give them room to expand.

So, to the OP's question, I've found the weight to be fairly consistent during the latter part of the winter. I'm much too inexperienced to judge whether the weight is 'right', but to my untutored eye I'd say that each of my colonies look fairly well stocked, yet have room to expand and, perhaps more importantly, the bees look happy there.

 

[madasafish]

I had 5 out of six main colonies pre winter at 40kg .
Post winter approx 25kg.
Empty of stores= c 17kg

Lang jumbos plus nadired super.

Pretty normal consumption : mild winter but big colonies now .(think 10-15 frames bees on Nationals).
One colony (Carnies) even has drone brood Yes it is Q+

 

[jeff33]

Despite all the good intentions in the autumn I didn't get around to measuring how much they consume. I have only fed polynucs in the autumn and added fondant from January. All other hives overwintered on single brood or with a full super if they were really strong in the autumn. They all seem to have a bit of stores left.
I was talking to B+ earlier in the week who has some automated scales on some of his hives with readings at regular intervals sent to an app. He can monitor stores but also expansion of the colonies.

 

[Newbeeneil]

I've been reading this thread with interest. How do you differentiate stores from brood weight wise? I was hefting one of my hives recently thinking it had loads of stores. When I got to inspect it it had almost no stores but had 7 frames of brood.

 

[Boston Bees]

I've been reading this thread with interest. How do you differentiate stores from brood weight wise? I was hefting one of my hives recently thinking it had loads of stores. When I got to inspect it it had almost no stores but had 7 frames of brood.

Interesting.

There should be a major difference.

A national brood frame, on both side, has around 5,400 cells I think. A fully grown bee weighs 0.11g. Multiply those together and you get, at most, 590g of bees in cells (in reality, frames don't tend to be filled wall to tall, and larvae or eggs weigh less than 0.11g).

Seven frames therefore weigh 4kg (in addition to the frame weight which you will already have adjusted for). Round it down to 3kg to allow for then being 75% full, and for the fact that l many of the cells won't have fully grown bees in.

That's not much more than one frame of honey?

But it's a good question - from late March, certainly we need to add two or three kg when calculating the safety buffer of food that must be in the hive, to adjust for the brood.

 

[Finman]

Amazing, that results are so even.

If you leave decimals off, the picture is more clear.
13 kg
13 kg
14 kg

The difference is not big. Under 10%.
1:13 = 8%

 

[Amari]

'Fraid I can't provide meaningful results, despite weighing very 3-4 weeks.

Most of my colonies (12) are brood+1/2 cedar Nats which weighed 29-35 kg in December. However, chastened by losing two colonies to starvation last year I fed all with 2.5 kg fondant Jan-Feb this year.
As previously posted, on a preliminary hive inspection two weeks ago (T 18C) many hives were stores-bound so I removed any remaining fondant and replaced a couple of BB frames with drawn comb or foundation.

Most hives are now 27-32 kg and I hope the bees are consuming the excess stores during this cold snap. OSR coming into flower!

It's a very imprecise science.......

 

[jeff33]

I've been reading this thread with interest. How do you differentiate stores from brood weight wise? I was hefting one of my hives recently thinking it had loads of stores. When I got to inspect it it had almost no stores but had 7 frames of brood.

I think it's probably very hard to differentiate, especially if you can't open the hive to see the size of the brood nest.

 

[Parsonage Bees]

Can you simplify the calculation by saying that the size/weight of bees and brood is roughly the same in Late Oct/November as it is now in late March/April?

I simplify things by recording the number of frames of stores and working on 2 - 2 1/2 lb per super frame ( I'm still selling in 1lb jars so haven't gone metric). I've no idea what a wooden National brood box, 11 drawn frames and a follower board weigh. Just comparing the weight drop since the last inspection around Halloween with the stores I saw then.

In the last week the weights have stayed the same or risen a couple of pounds so I'm wondering have they found some nectar or is there a big greedy brood nest.
The two colonies with the biggest weight drop I've lifted the crown board and counted the frames of stores in the super from both sides.

(btw not keen on brood and a half over winter and having to manage unused stores/syrup the following year. My mongrels don't form a large cluster and don't eat much. (Don't produce a lot of honey) Thinking of changing to a single National BB).

 

[elainemary]

I've been reading this thread with interest. How do you differentiate stores from brood weight wise? I was hefting one of my hives recently thinking it had loads of stores. When I got to inspect it it had almost no stores but had 7 frames of brood.

I allow a weight for the bees and I increase it for March, probably not that accurate. Not much brood judging by cappings on varroa slider before then. At first spring inspection (yet to do) before the spring flow starts I assess the stores left visually (do the same at end sept) and compare to the weights and come to a sort of conclusion.

 

[elainemary]

Can you simplify the calculation by saying that the size/weight of bees and brood is roughly the same in Late Oct/November as it is now in late March/April?

I simplify things by recording the number of frames of stores and working on 2 - 2 1/2 lb per super frame ( I'm still selling in 1lb jars so haven't gone metric). I've no idea what a wooden National brood box, 11 drawn frames and a follower board weigh. Just comparing the weight drop since the last inspection around Halloween with the stores I saw then.

In the last week the weights have stayed the same or risen a couple of pounds so I'm wondering have they found some nectar or is there a big greedy brood nest.
The two colonies with the biggest weight drop I've lifted the crown board and counted the frames of stores in the super from both sides.

(btw not keen on brood and a half over winter and having to manage unused stores/syrup the following year. My mongrels don't form a large cluster and don't eat much. (Don't produce a lot of honey) Thinking of changing to a single National BB).

I nadir my super so they tend to move it up into the BB so it’s clean in spring. Though one colony I’ve looked at so far had more in the super left than usual. I’ve saved these frames and marked them for a dearth.

 

[Bluetractorman]

24th Oct to 1st Apr
29.6lbs lighter.
This is an average over 5 nationals. Weighed with luggage scales, left and right rear corners, the two weights then added.
This number takes account of top-up in Feb for some of them.

 

[elainemary]

Fed some of mine up to the end of October. Weights rose last week for the first time. Measured by lifting one side with a luggage scale and double.

November 2nd - March 23rd between 4.5kg (10lb) and 8kg (18lb) 6.3kg (14lb) weight drop.
This is similar to 2019-2020.

Wooden BB and 1/2 format (with just roof insulation) for 5 of them plus one double brood. Local mongrels. Sheltered garden. Not looked through them yet. Not given any fondant but did crack a couple of crown boards on hives that worried me.
I think they are pretty frugal !!

.. . . . Ben

Thanks. I stop feeding end Sept. My Oct stores usage was 1.7kg or 4lb - your weights are from Nov. Yours do seem frugal which is good. I have 3 full sized colonies that are frugal ie around 8-10kg Oct - March. This all goes into the melting pot when I weigh up beneficial characteristics to decide which queen(s) to rear from

 

[blackcloud]

It's been a very mild winter up to now for us and stores are now beginning to hinder progress.Hopefully this cold snap might clear some more space.
Looks like frames will be removed and stored until autumn.

 

[Jules59]

Because my WBC hives weigh different amounts (differing construction) I find hefting them difficult to interpret. Hence I started weighing them. This winter 4 hives followed an almost identical path and on average lost 9kg. But one hive (currently 10 good frames of brood in a double brood setup) lost only 5.9kg.
In my calculations I made allowances for fondant etc

 

[Parsonage Bees]

I nadir my super so they tend to move it up into the BB so it’s clean in spring. Though one colony I’ve looked at so far had more in the super left than usual. I’ve saved these frames and marked them for a dearth.

Tried nadiring. Maybe did it too late because they didn't move the stores and 4-5 frames went mouldy and had to be melted down the following spring.

 

[Parsonage Bees]

Because my WBC hives weigh different amounts (differing construction) I find hefting them difficult to interpret. Hence I started weighing them. This winter 4 hives followed an almost identical path and on average lost 9kg. But one hive (currently 10 good frames of brood in a double brood setup) lost only 5.9kg.
In my calculations I made allowances for fondant etc
View attachment 31226

I enjoy a good graph! Similar level of consumption as my bees. With mine the bigger colonies eat more so . . . ? and overall are not as consistent. Thanks. . . . Ben