Why 14x12 and not Commercial Brood

[JCBrum]

In case you find my post above a bit confusing or pedantic, I would say 14x12 is a bit bigger than commercial but only about half a frame, and that makes no real practical difference.

Number of cells should not be the deciding factor between ED Nat, and Commercial.

p.s. I don't like the small lugs on commercial or Langstroth frames, and I think that National BB's are stronger than either Lang or Commercial, and so are easier to make and last longer.

A personal opinion and just my 2p for what it's worth.

 

[beebreeder]

I started on commercial but with big hands I found the short lugs an absolute nightmare, I then went to Standard National but found he brood nest to small in summer, my bee buddy advised 14x12 and I havent looked back, with Carniolan bees that build quickly it gives room for the correct shape nest, ( no brood and half) and if you read the books the only way to get the correct weight of winter stores in one b/box is 14x12 as standard national has not got enough brood area. I now actively rear queens and use my old national broods for Nucs throught the summer and feeder ekes during the autumn hope this helps

 

[Hivemaker.]

Carniolans,yes they need a big box because they don't know when to stop laying,but many local mongrels do not,most of my bee's do very nicely in single brood chamber standad nationals,same as many commercial beekeepers.

Welcome to the forum beebreeder, about time you made a post...

 

[OXFORDBEE]

I'm still very happy with the 16*10 boxes I bought 30 years ago. For the bees I've got they are the right size. I don't find short the lugged frames a problem to manage and I do fairly well with them!

 

[Hawklord]

...if you read the books the only way to get the correct weight of winter stores in one b/box is 14x12 as standard national has not got enough brood area.

Surely a bigger colony will need more stores through Winter? I would think that a colony in a single standard brood box will have enough space for the correct amount of stores for it's size.

 

[victor meldrew]

Surely a bigger colony will need more stores through Winter? I would think that a colony in a single standard brood box will have enough space for the correct amount of stores for it's size.

Smaller colonies use more stores than larger ones as the mass of the cluster is so much smaller thus retaining less heat and requiring bees to consume more stores in order to generate replacement of heat losses ?

John Wilkinson

 

[Hawklord]

Smaller colonies use more stores than larger ones as the mass of the cluster is so much smaller thus retaining less heat and requiring bees to consume more stores in order to generate replacement of heat losses ?

John Wilkinson

Surely a smaller space takes less heat to keep warm? Also I think the correct way to put it is ' A smaller colony consumes more stores per bee'.

 

[Rosti]

14x12 users, can you recommend a reliable source of suitable brood boxes or do you use / get away with a std national piggybacked to a super below?

Secondly can you get a hoffman 14x12?, alternatively your prefered format.

 

[Finman]

Surely a bigger colony will need more stores through Winter? .

Sure it does, but it is earlier to get a good honey yield, like from rape.

Sugar price means nothing compared to foraged honey, but wintered bees do not forage surplus. They just make new foragers.

But it depends on pastures, do you get advantace from bigger winter clusters.

 

[Tom Bick]

Hoffman 14x12 Yes and plenty of people supply 14x12 BB and you can get an Eke to convert a standard BB to a 14x12

 

[hedgerow pete]

if you do count ever cell on a frame we will come round just to laugh, jc numbers are as near as you want you have jet to answer the question of whever you want a commercial or a national

 

[PaleoPerson]

I think that 14x12 frames come as Hoffman by default, the extra thickness at the top of the side bars is needed to stop them twisting.

One of the big suppliers told me that but I cannot remember which one.

 

[oliver90owner]

They usually are Hoffmans but if one foregoes the extra frame one could squeeze in, it is much easier to manipulate - by removing a dummy at the end of the brood box before having to remove a frame with bees on it.

Regards, RAB

 

[JCBrum]

Most Brood frames are Hoffman because that is what everyone uses these days, because it's self-spacing.

The esoteric choice is between DN4 or DN5 top bars which is 7/8 inch or 1+1/16 inch wide.

The DN5 wider top bars are said to attract less brace comb, and they probably do, but I'm not sure the price premium is worth it.

Frames are not particularly expensive, just get stuck in with whatever you can obtain and learn by experience. It'll do you good in the long run. Ha Ha.

 

[JCBrum]

They usually are Hoffmans but if one foregoes the extra frame one could squeeze in, it is much easier to manipulate - by removing a dummy at the end of the brood box before having to remove a frame with bees on it.

Regards, RAB

Agreed, experience teaches that a dummy facilitates regular inspections because it allows you to remove it without much trauma, and makes room for separating the frames.

 

[victor meldrew]

Surely a smaller space takes less heat to keep warm? Also I think the correct way to put it is ' A smaller colony consumes more stores per bee'.

I think you are speculating on the mechanics of the Winter cluster.
There is too much anecdotal information to back my argument for it to be a fallacy !
I have seen small well fed colonies Not making it through Winter . I haven't in 20 odd years seen a well fed large colony Not making it through Winter .', neither pre, nor post varroa !.

john wilkinson

 

[m100]

was over last week and very impressed with the poly nationals think i might invest in one ASAP...... was also surprised just how tough the poly materiel was.

Gave Wynne Jones a ring earlier today as I was passing by. Got a bit of an anti-sell line! Foul brood implications and costly disposal mentioned (I can live with that) and then I raised the question of viewing or buying - found that no stock is held, none are currently on order (presumably a dead sales item over winter) and so no stock is expected until sometime next spring with no real date in mind although there is no intention of taking any to Stoneleigh.

So it looks like a direct order to Swienty is the only way to get hold of one unless someone knows different.

 

[Hivemaker.]

E mail Josephine,(swienty)sure they will very soon have one posted to you.

 

[MuswellMetro]

14x12 users, can you recommend a reliable source of suitable brood boxes or do you use / get away with a std national piggybacked to a super below?

Secondly can you get a hoffman 14x12?, alternatively your prefered format.

i use a standard brood and 90mm Eke ( thornes about £16 or mine is just DIY 90mm x 460mm square box made of 19mm (oak) floor boards, no beespace or runners....now totaly propilised together by bees

i use thornes hoffmans 14x12frames with one 14X8 frame to induce drone comb ( to cull)

 

[Geoff]

Gave Wynne Jones a ring earlier today as I was passing by. Got a bit of an anti-sell line! Foul brood implications and costly disposal mentioned (I can live with that) and then I raised the question of viewing or buying - found that no stock is held, none are currently on order (presumably a dead sales item over winter) and so no stock is expected until sometime next spring with no real date in mind although there is no intention of taking any to Stoneleigh.

So it looks like a direct order to Swienty is the only way to get hold of one unless someone knows different.

Send Macros a pm. See if he can sort you out. He sorted out a poly hive from Swienty for me.