What would YOU do?

[galileo]

On May 30th, I had a fast growing colony that was running out of space. They were in a national deep BB with a single super, filling the hive with BIAS on 8 frames. I popped another deep BB of foundation above and by June 8th, 8 frames were fully drawn & several laid up. They've continued to grow apace on OSR, such that at yesterday's inspection they were found to be filling both boxes, with 5 frames of BIAS in the top and 10.5 in the bottom.

You know what's coming next, don't you?

Whilst not yet making serious QCs, they'd put up a dozen cups by yesterday, 6 of which had eggs. None of the cups were charged, but there's drone brood aplenty and they're clearly in the mood for a swarm before long. The queen was seen to be a little less chunky than last weekend, so I reckon it's more a matter of when than if.

This would not be an issue, were it not for the fact that I'm being taken on hols from next Sunday (30th) through to the Saturday following. I'll get a chance to inspect on the 29th, then not again until the Sunday after.

Both BBs have adequate stores (taking supers into consideration).

I've a dual mini mating nuc with combs drawn and ready to go, and I'd like to be in a position to rear a couple of queens from this hard working girl, so....

My plan is to split them tomorrow (Monday), with the Queen in the new BB (the one that has 5 BIAS frames) in the current location, with a super. The other BB I'm planning to move to the side with a new floor, roof and super. I'd hope that they'd be making QCs for me, such that I'd have one to leave in the box and a couple to place in the mating nuc.

Thinking is:

1 Split tomorrow, ensuring that there are eggs in the then Q- box.
2 Check for and remove all QCs on Thursday
3 Holiday Sun thru Sat
4 Inspect the following Sunday & divide up the QCs as appropriate.
5 Wait
6 Pray

The timing could be a lot better 'cos I won't have the chance to observe occupation status of QCs before they're capped, but if I keep 3 then I'm rolling with the odds, I hope.

Am I missing something simple that would achive the above goals as or more effectively/certainly?

Any and all advice and/or critique welcome.

Cheers

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

they'd put up a dozen cups by yesterday, 6 of which had eggs. None of the cups were charged,

They're charged in my book.
What about:

New BB in current location with queen, five frames of brood (choose the least filled ones) and foundation. QX, two supers then original BB with the rest of the brood on top. Go back in Friday and cull any sealed QC's.
When you get back from your hols, split the top BB into three nucs (hopefully) and maybe the odd QC into your mating nucs.

 

[RogueDrone]

I'm with Jenkins Knock out current "charged " as have eggs cells and put brood up top and Queen, frame she is on and one seald brood bottomQX suppers between. Nurses go up forages go down, similar to AS top box may make QCs to encourage QC snelgrove / top side entrance.

Colin

 

[galileo]

Thanks for those replies/suggestions, chaps.

Looks like we're essentially on the same page, but you're going vertical where I'm looking at horizontal. I like your idea of nucs jenkins, but I'm not looking to make increase from them; rather keep them as together as possible for the lime at least. I've also run out of foundation, with baileys going on in two of the other colonies.

I'd thought about nucing the queen and drifting fliers back, but all my nucs are occupied elsewhere with swarms and whatnot.

I had some success with snelgrove last season Colin, but I've become a bit leary of vertical splits after having a good queen take to wing from beneath a Horsley a few weeks ago. The inability to stop HM downstairs skipping off when a virgin pops in the top box, due to the caution against inspecting while VQ is getting seen to, is a concern.

I'll mull the above over (along with anything else that may or may not be suggested) and put the options to her indoors - this hive is hers - with the pros and cons, and see what she wants.

Thanks again for your input, and for gently pointing out that I perhaps ought to change my understanding of what constitutes "charged" in common parlance.

Cheers and regards
Marc

 

[galileo]

Right.... following discussion with herself, allied to the fact that I'm not wanting to be making a floor & roof today....

How about if we split the desired outcomes into two: first to prevent swarming whilst we're away and second, when we return, to get some QCs manufactured for requeening the colony & stocking mating nucs, as follows:-

Today
Go in to remove any and all QCs and reassemble with new BB, 5 frames brood, rest comb (with stores), QX and 2 supers as per jbm. Above, snelgrove board with top side open, old BB (majority of brood) QX and 3rd super as per RD. Bottom box has Queen, fliers, supers, brood, space and 5 days to do their worst. Top BB has brood, fliers, super, little space and will probably start making QCs right away, as Q-

Friday or Saturday depending on weather.
Go in again and switch Q to top box, removing any QCs made downstairs if they've a mind, close side gate, open same side bottom gate and also open opposite side top gate, thereby bleeding flying bees to bottom box, causing the tearing down of any QCs they've made in the week. Bottom BB has fliers, supers, brood, space and is Q-, and will probably start on QCs this weekend, but won't have a queen to fly with for 12 - 16 days. Top BB has brood, Q, space (due to emergence) but no fliers.

Holiday, with narry a single thought about bees.

On return, see what the score is, how many and where the QCs are, and take it from there.

I'm trying to keep it simple and bloody fool proof and with me, it'll have to be.

Any thoughts again welcome as it's easy to miss the obvious.

Cheers
Marc

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

I think maybe you are complicating things a little bit. With the method i described (basically a Demaree) you'd just leave the queen in the bottom then after clearing any capped QC's Friday you'd come back the weekend after with (possibly) a good group of sealed QC's in the top box from day or two old larvae nearing emerging which you can then:
a) harvest and put into mating nucs
b) split the whole brood into 2,3 or even (if enough bees) four nuclei
c) Knock down as per Demarree's original system, replace one or two of the empty brood combs with freshly laid ones from the bottom box where the queen is and start againYou can even, if you want, on the Friday before going, clear all QC's (capped and uncapped) then as d) put a frame or two of fresh eggs from the bottom box in to replace frames where bees have emerged from the top.
vertical set-up which saves you kit and either gives you the material to make increase or supresses the swarming instinct, If you have three supers put them all between the two boxes but no Snelgrove board - both sides of the demarree will use the same space for stores.
leaving some brood, room to lay and plenty of space in the bottom box should stop the queen making off
Just my slant on things

 

[galileo]

Aye, I see your point and thank you for the further thoughts. I'm off to do the deed this afternoon if it ever crawls above 13 here, so I'll make the final decision based on what awaits. At the end of the day, life here won't be worth living if I manage to lose SHMBO's fave queen.

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

well, as long as it's not torrential rain, wind or snow, you have to go in: I know in an ideal world you would wait for it to go above 13. But just get in there and do it! I've inspected in light rain before now (how do you think commercial beekeepers manage?)

 

[galileo]

Quick update chaps - worked perfectly. I now have 3 new baby queens, 2 in nucs and one in the old BB, with the mother colony doing great under 4 supers. Thanks for the support... and the holiday was fun too!

Cheers
Marc

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

Glad it worked for you - was going to do the same to my colony at the training apiary last month but due to weather etc, couldn't get down there until two weeks ago - and she'd swarmed!! managed to get a few nucs out of it though which hopefuly the queens emerged in the last few days.

 

[drstitson]

As per JBM - performing an AS is basically the only significant formal hive manipulation that HAS to be performed whatever the weather.

The advice of 13C or T-shirt weather really refers to "unnecessary" intrusions into the hive.

 

[beeno]

Well done Jenkins and Galileo - so it works!