What would you do? One for our novice beekeepers

[Sutty]

Nuc’ing the queen is not a fail safe option unfortunately. I’ve got a colony that is now making swarm preparations in the nuc. Rather than split again, and use up valuable kit, the queen will be used to replace a lazy queen.

Is that in a single 5/6 frame nuc?

 

[E&MBees]

Is that in a single 5/6 frame nuc?

No, I expanded them last week, double poly nuc brood, so she has 12 brood frames, 10 of them are drawn, 7-8 are now laid up and a poly nuc super. No excuse really.

 

[Sutty]

No, I expanded them last week, double poly nuc brood, so she had 12 brood frames, 10 drawn, 7-8 laid up and a poly nuc super. No excuse really.

I recently moved a very full double 6 frame nuc to a poly hive - had 2 frames to move elsewhere which emphasised the size reduction - they did get a super too though!

 

[Erichalfbee]

Nuc’ing the queen is not a fail safe option unfortunately. I’ve got a colony that is now making swarm preparations in the nuc. Rather than split again, and use up valuable kit, the queen will be used to replace a lazy queen.

But at least you still have the unswarmed parent hive.

No, I expanded them last week, double poly nuc brood, so she has 12 brood frames, 10 of them are drawn, 7-8 are now laid up and a poly nuc super. No excuse really.

They are no longer a nuc but a swarmy big colony.
Nucing the queen saved both her and her parent hive.

 

[E&MBees]

I recently moved a very full double 6 frame nuc to a poly hive - had 2 frames to move elsewhere which emphasised the size reduction - they did get a super too though!

They had plenty of space, certainly not rammed.

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

Nuc’ing the queen is not a fail safe option unfortunately. I’ve got a colony that is now making swarm preparations in the nuc.

how did you do the nuc? you need to put the queen in the nuc with just one frame of brood, a drawn frame or two to lay in, frame of stores and foundationthen shake in a good few frames of bees from the brood box. Do not plug the entrance with grass and do not move the nuc to a site elsewhere, but rather leave it near the mother hive. That way, all the flying bees will quickly return to the mother hive, so you only have nurse bees left in the nuc thus you have lost all your flying (swarm instigator) bees.

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

No, I expanded them last week, double poly nuc brood, so she has 12 brood frames, 10 of them are drawn, 7-8 are now laid up and a poly nuc super. No excuse really.

so not a nuc any more then

 

[Bettenham]

Ok, so we've nuc'ed the Queen and left her in the apiary to bleed off the flyers. What happens to the single sealed QC in the double brood? I'm wondering that because we've taken the Q away there is a good chance they might make more QC's? Or are they so far down the supercedure lane that you can safely leave that one to then requeen?

 

[Do224]

Nuc’ing the queen is not a fail safe option unfortunately. I’ve got a colony that is now making swarm preparations in the nuc. Rather than split again, and use up valuable kit, the queen will be used to replace a lazy queen.

Do you think too many flying bees ended up in the nuc? Did it stay in the same apiary as the original hive or was it moved?

 

[fian]

It's really hard to know under normal conditions. It is known that in supersedure the queens share a short period of cohabitation, so it is very likely that the old queen will not swarm until the new one begins laying. However, in swarming conditions, the old queen usually leaves before the emergence of the first queen.
This implies that the old queen stops laying to be able to face the flight around 15 days before. If we apply this time frame to the event of supersedure, the old queen would cease laying around 3-6 days before the emergence of the new queen.

 

[E&MBees]

how did you do the nuc? you need to put the queen in the nuc with just one frame of brood, a drawn frame or two to lay in, frame of stores and foundationthen shake in a good few frames of bees from the brood box. Do not plug the entrance with grass and do not move the nuc to a site elsewhere, but rather leave it near the mother hive. That way, all the flying bees will quickly return to the mother hive, so you only have nurse bees left in the nuc thus you have lost all your flying (swarm instigator) bees.

Did all of that.

 

[E&MBees]

Do you think too many flying bees ended up in the nuc? Did it stay in the same apiary as the original hive or was it moved?

Who knows. I did the same as I always do. One frame of sealed emerging brood, frame of stores, empty drawn foundation and just foundation. Good shake of bees, leave entrance open, shut the lid and leave them in the same apiary.

 

[E&MBees]

so not a nuc any more then

They started as a nuc though

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

Ok, so we've nuc'ed the Queen and left her in the apiary to bleed off the flyers. What happens to the single sealed QC in the double brood? I'm wondering that because we've taken the Q away there is a good chance they might make more QC's? Or are they so far down the supercedure lane that you can safely leave that one to then requeen?

you go in a week later and check

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

They started as a nuc though

as do most colonies.

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

It's really hard to know under normal conditions. It is known that in supersedure the queens share a short period of cohabitation, so it is very likely that the old queen will not swarm until the new one begins laying. However, in swarming conditions, the old queen usually leaves before the emergence of the first queen.
This implies that the old queen stops laying to be able to face the flight around 15 days before. If we apply this time frame to the event of supersedure, the old queen would cease laying around 3-6 days before the emergence of the new queen.

That's utter nonsense, queens seldom stop laying before swarming - especially not for fifteen days, otherwise you would never get emergency queen cells after a swarm as there would be no larvae in the hive.

 

[Antipodes]

Nuc’ing the queen is not a fail safe option unfortunately. I’ve got a colony that is now making swarm preparations in the nuc. Rather than split again, and use up valuable kit, the queen will be used to replace a lazy queen.

Hi E&M,
What are you seeing by way of swarm preparations please?

 

[Swarm]

Moving the queen to a nuc achieves just one thing, it prevents the colony from swarming. Sometimes it is enough to suppress the swarming impulse but not always.
Going back to the scenario I mentioned, the cell was already sealed, I have no idea if it is viable but I had the queen there before me. It was the last week in May, bees tend to swarm at this time of year

 

[E&MBees]

Hi E&M,
What are you seeing by way of swarm preparations please?

The usual, multiple charged queen cells.

 

[Antipodes]

The usual, multiple charged queen cells.

Is the queen still alive?