What to do with my naughty colony.

[Swn58]

Ok.....here is a dilemma.
Some of you may remember that I had one hell of a time last season with 'Hive 2' down at the farm. Never in ten years have I been attacked quite like that. I have dealt with naughty bees before, but never had what seemed like the whole hive come at me! It was so bad that I actually told my long suffering partner to run as far away as she could. Even after I finished my work I could not get out of my suit until I was far away from the apiary. I actually had to walk out of the wood and 300 metres down the hill track, before I was safe, in fact.
Just to add to the problem, a storm last month blew that hive on its back. I did manage to right it without too much hassle, but it could not have done the queen much good psychologically!
The dilemma is what to do with the colony this year. The obvious choice is to kill the queen. I have done this before and re-queened from another source.

My first question is: If I do this and the queenless hive draws queen-cells, will they automatically be as bad as their mother? I have never had to consider doing this so early in the season and don't know how much of an issue it may be for this colony. I had trouble with another colony last year, but 'butter wouldn't melt' a month later, just as I was considering 'Regicide! It was as if nothing had ever happened.
I am currently working out my campaign for this year. Virtually all the hives at the farm are going to 'false-swarmed.' with the queens moved to nucs. Obviously I hope that QC's will be formed. If this does not happen naturally, I will make sure it does happen in some way!

Second question: Do I put up with this colony for now and false swarm them, along with the others, except take out any QC's that they form? Then I can just add a QC's formed in another hive.

I'm sure that there will be several different opinions to this. So, I expect a fair fight, with no hitting below the belt, or illegal use of hive-tools.

 

[Boston Bees]

First obvious question - are they definitely still aggressive this spring?

 

[peteinwilts]

consider what causes naughty hives...

Elderly queen - can be replaced (at a more suitable time of year)

Grumpy queen - AKA bad genes. can also be replaced. Chances are, the offspring will also be grumpy and will need a few weeks to replace the bees.

Extra large hive - some big hives can be overly defensive. they can afford to be! split it down when the time is right

defensive behaviour - often wasps, but I have had an aggressive hive that was sat over an ants nest. moved it a few feet and the bees chilled right down.

you - been eating bananas, do you smoke, eat a lot of curry or garlic?

Environmental - I once relieved a guy from a really grumpy hive. It was facing a conifer. Moved it back to mine and they were lovely.

You can replace the queen or breed one of your own.
If it were me, I would...
remove the queen.
remove eggs and put them in a different hive
Take some 'friendly' eggs from a better hive and move them to the grumpy hive
remove drone cells from grumpy hive.
Make sure they do as they are told.

or
buy a queen

... but not until it is warmer.

 

[gmonag]

Wait until you have mated queen from another hive, then re-queen. It is the safest option and will remove any lingering doubts.

 

[Polymorph]

So first rule out any environmental issues. Some may be obscure - I had pheasants landing on one hive, which didn't please the occupants.
The next element is about your stock and your neighbours -are you working with or against each other. Can you try to work together? Often the different races when crossed can lead to unpredictability.
Ifyou can't raise a few additional queens and keep in nucs. Swap out those which are a problem.

 

[domino]

I'd bump her off and either unite it or wait a few days knock all the queen cells down and give them a frame of eggs from a more chill hive.

Hyper defensive bees are a nightmare.

 

[jeff33]

I would 2nd Domino's suggestion as the easiest option.

This is usually my preferred spring approach with any hives that have struggled through the winter or are too aggressive.

 

[Hebeegeebee]

Leaving them queenless could make them worse and in my part of the world, it's too early to raise queens. I would remove the queen and unite them with another colony so the bad genetics are not around (in drones). Then you can raise/buy queens/split later.

 

[Amari]

Ok.....here is a dilemma.

I am currently working out my campaign for this year. Virtually all the hives at the farm are going to 'false-swarmed.' with the queens moved to nucs. Obviously I hope that QC's will be formed. If this does not happen naturally, I will make sure it does happen in some way!

That's likely to reduce your honey crop quite a bit.

 

[enrico]

I go with heebeegeebee. Remember the first inspection of the year is always the easiest. Bees are usually calm. There are less of them. The workers are busy and not bored. Use this unique opportunity to find the queen. Don't dither. Kill her. Combine immediately with a previously chosen hive.

 

[Swn58]

That's likely to reduce your honey crop quite a bit.

I need to increase my colonies this year. I want to be selling bees as much as honey. Saying that, last year my newly installed nucs, at the farm, were fully operational within weeks. They nearly all filled two supers by mid July. Into August/September there was even more honey. I did not expect such an amount!

 

[Swn58]

First obvious question - are they definitely still aggressive this spring?

Apart from having to be 'squat lifted' them back onto a stand a month ago I have not fussed them too much. That test will come when I do the first full inspection and treat for varroa.

 

[Swn58]

consider what causes naughty hives...

Elderly queen - can be replaced (at a more suitable time of year)

Grumpy queen - AKA bad genes. can also be replaced. Chances are, the offspring will also be grumpy and will need a few weeks to replace the bees.

Extra large hive - some big hives can be overly defensive. they can afford to be! split it down when the time is right

defensive behaviour - often wasps, but I have had an aggressive hive that was sat over an ants nest. moved it a few feet and the bees chilled right down.

you - been eating bananas, do you smoke, eat a lot of curry or garlic?

Environmental - I once relieved a guy from a really grumpy hive. It was facing a conifer. Moved it back to mine and they were lovely.

You can replace the queen or breed one of your own.
If it were me, I would...
remove the queen.
remove eggs and put them in a different hive
Take some 'friendly' eggs from a better hive and move them to the grumpy hive
remove drone cells from grumpy hive.
Make sure they do as they are told.

or
buy a queen

... but not until it is warmer.

1. The queen is barely two years old.
2. She should have been well bred as they were from Thornes.
3. They were well populated, so it could have been a factor, but so are the other colonies.
4. Wasps were not a problem the first trouble I had with them. The hives are on stands.
5. I don't eat bananas when playing with bees, but do eat at least a half a one every morning! I don't smoke, but do like spicy food and garlic!
6. They are in a near identical environment as the other colonies (There are photos on here)
7. 'Friendly egg' transfers etc may be possible, but could cause more 'physical traumas?
8. I should have enough queens to spare eventually.

I have already given them a good 'talking to!'

 

[Swn58]

I go with heebeegeebee. Remember the first inspection of the year is always the easiest. Bees are usually calm. There are less of them. The workers are busy and not bored. Use this unique opportunity to find the queen. Don't dither. Kill her. Combine immediately with a previously chosen hive.

Aha.....that's a good idea! I aim to create at least two 'super hives' as I call them, in that apiary. My aim is to produce a lot of bees, to populate new nucs etc.. I could combine using a QR bottom brood box and newspaper divide. It will be the first time I've done that in the spring. I will have to make sure that there are no QC's when I do it though! In fact, I've just realised, I can split the brood box and do two amalgamations at the same time. It would certainly put me ahead of the game on that front!
One question though, as I have never done this in the spring before. Will I not have to give the queenless brood-box a few days, to clear the dead queens pheromone influence? I remember seeing a 'combined' hive once that must have had two thousand casualties, as a result of a massive battle that had ensued. I gathered it was due to that.

 

[enrico]

Aha.....that's a good idea! I aim to create at least two 'super hives' as I call them, in that apiary. My aim is to produce a lot of bees, to populate new nucs etc.. I could combine using a QR bottom brood box and newspaper divide. It will be the first time I've done that in the spring. I will have to make sure that there are no QC's when I do it though! In fact, I've just realised, I can split the brood box and do two amalgamations at the same time. It would certainly put me ahead of the game on that front!
One question though, as I have never done this in the spring before. Will I not have to give the queenless brood-box a few days, to clear the dead queens pheromone influence? I remember seeing a 'combined' hive once that must have had two thousand casualties, as a result of a massive battle that had ensued. I gathered it was due to that.

Just put a squirt of air freshener in each hive. There may be a few casualties but not many! Or newspaper if you prefer

 

[pargyle]

I think my choice would be kill the queen and combine if they show any signs of agression at the first inspection. Life is too short and time too precious to spend it on colonies that are a misery to inspect. Give them a chance but - if they come up at you ... make a plan to find the queen (not easy when the bees are trying to kill you but a lot easier early in the season than later when at full strength) and despatch her and combine with another hive. You can always take a nuc off them when there are plenty of drones about a bit later in the season ...or keep it as a mega colony (but keep and eye out for swarming !).

 

[Sutty]

You could also exchange the positions of the problem hive and a friendlier one so the problem hive has lost most of its field bees to the original site before inspecting. Then use whatever management plan you decide on. At least the inspection should be more pleasant.

 

[pargyle]

You could also exchange the positions of the problem hive and a friendlier one so the problem hive has lost most of its field bees to the original site before inspecting. Then use whatever management plan you decide on. At least the inspection should be more pleasant.

Or better still ... move the original hive away and put an empty box with a couple of drawn combs in it in its place - that will draw off the fliers without contaminating another colony ...

 

[Finman]

Change the queen. That is only way.

You may buy a laying queen, a package or unite the queenless colony to another hive.

It is important to get rid of bad ass drones too.

 

[Hebeegeebee]

Following on from my post, if you want the keep the bad queen and a frame of brood and a enough bees to cover, then that will be manageable enough and will grow over the next month or two enough so that you can then squash the queen and put a queencell in it later - an instant nuc - without reducing the numbers from a production colony.