What did you do in the 'workshop' today

[JamezF]

as long as you make sure that all the grooves face inwards, think about it

Right! That's it! I'm going out to the workshop.

James

 

[Garry R]

I'm sure that's incorrect, but I'd be fascinated to be shown to be wrong if you have time to post a photo at some point.

I buy my sidebars in fifties and never think to consider which side goes where. I just pick them up and stick them on and they "just work". If I've got it right every time over thousands of frames purely by chance I shall be buying a lottery ticket next week.

James

Agree with James - if the groove/slot is to the inside of the frame then the whole thing is bevel to flat on adjacent frames - the frames are manufactured identically from the maker I presume. The problem comes if for some reason another manufacturer decides that he goes opposite to someone else ie bevel to the left as against to the right if the groove is towards you . Problem comes when you mix them in the frame making. I think from my chemistry lessons all those years ago it was described as isomerism and chirality. As an aside, Manley frames do away with the bevel altogether.

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

I don't really understand why bevels are there in the first place. They don't seem to do anything useful.

it's a BBKA thing

 

[JamezF]

I think you lot are pulling my plonker...

Two sidebars, picked at random from the pile, foundation slot up, bevel on the left in both cases.



(Badly) assembled, grooves in. I think they might be Maisie's sidebars and a Thorne top bar and the throat dimensions aren't perfectly the same.



Bevel towards me at the right hand end, flat towards me at the left. Exactly as I'd expect.



James

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

Right! That's it! I'm going out to the workshop.

James

no need, I obviously didn't explain myself very well (or confused myself in the explaining), all UK side bars, when laid flat with groove upwards have the bevel to the left, the Chinese to the right, so if you mix and match Chinese with ours then you get as I was babbling about in post #4776 which is what poot has ended up with

 

[JamezF]

no need, I obviously didn't explain myself very well (or confused myself in the explaining), all UK side bars, when laid flat with groove upwards have the bevel to the left, the Chinese to the right, so if you mix and match Chinese with ours then you get as I was babbling about in post #4776 which is what poot has ended up with

Ah. Yes, I can see how that could happen. Or indeed if someone put a set of sidebars through the machine that cuts the bevels with the groove facing the wrong way, which is perhaps what has happened in Poot's case?

James

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

Or indeed if someone put a set of sidebars through the machine that cuts the bevels with the groove facing the wrong way, which is perhaps what has happened in Poot's case?

I think so, but as I said the bevel/flats thing is pretty pointless ayway, having had frames with the bevels on the 'wrong' sides mixed with ones on the 'correct' sides in hives, it makes no difference if you have flats against flat or bevels. But I'm sure the BBKA would demand I be burnt on the stake for saying so.

 

[JamezF]

I think so, but as I said the bevel/flats thing is pretty pointless ayway, having had frames with the bevels on the 'wrong' sides mixed with ones on the 'correct' sides in hives, it makes no difference if you have flats against flat or bevels. But I'm sure the BBKA would demand I be burnt on the stake for saying so.

Tied to the left side of the stake, presumably?

This is one of my two frame-related beekeeping mysteries. Why, when everyone else seems to manage perfectly fine without, do we have to go to the extra time and expense of machining bevels on Hoffman frames (and I've seen some Manleys done that way too). The other is why, when everyone else seems to manage perfectly fine without, do we go to the extra time and expense of making pre-wired foundation?

James

 

[JamezF]

Shame about the lottery ticket though.

James

 

[Garry R]

I think you lot are pulling my plonker...

Two sidebars, picked at random from the pile, foundation slot up, bevel on the left in both cases.

View attachment 40173

(Badly) assembled, grooves in. I think they might be Maisie's sidebars and a Thorne top bar and the throat dimensions aren't perfectly the same.

View attachment 40174

Bevel towards me at the right hand end, flat towards me at the left. Exactly as I'd expect.

View attachment 40175View attachment 40176

James

Just wondered if your wife supplies the newspaper in you rworkshop laying them out with the subtle hint that a cruise on the Danube might be a good idea or is it your idea as I see there are free drinks and only 8 days allowing you to fit it in between inspections!

 

[JamezF]

Just wondered if your wife supplies the newspaper in you rworkshop laying them out with the subtle hint that a cruise on the Danube might be a good idea or is it your idea as I see there are free drinks and only 8 days allowing you to fit it in between inspections!

It's actually supplied by my in-laws. Embarrassingly they insist on buying the Mail and the Express, so I feel bound to actually find some sort of useful purpose for them and I daren't put them in the recycling in case one of the neighbours sees them.

James

 

[pargyle]

Tied to the left side of the stake, presumably?

This is one of my two frame-related beekeeping mysteries. Why, when everyone else seems to manage perfectly fine without, do we have to go to the extra time and expense of machining bevels on Hoffman frames (and I've seen some Manleys done that way too). The other is why, when everyone else seems to manage perfectly fine without, do we go to the extra time and expense of making pre-wired foundation?

James

1. It was probably an idea by someone who though they were being clever and like many things in beekeeping got taken up by the more gullible to the point where it became the accepted norm.

2. Because they are complicated in design and appearance -

a) It discourages people from making their own with simple square sections.
b) The frame suppliers can justify the exhorbitant cost of them ...

Evidence - it's only the UK that have fallen into these traps ...

 

[Moobee]

I just put different numbers on all mine - seems to work

Clever bees

 

[markyfive]

Tied to the left side of the stake, presumably?

This is one of my two frame-related beekeeping mysteries. Why, when everyone else seems to manage perfectly fine without, do we have to go to the extra time and expense of machining bevels on Hoffman frames (and I've seen some Manleys done that way too). The other is why, when everyone else seems to manage perfectly fine without, do we go to the extra time and expense of making pre-wired foundation?

James

As dicussed already James, you're absolutely correct that Hoffman frames are all identical- well the UK ones are....or should be!

I have been making my own frames and the bevel is a total pain to make and I think completely un-neccessary. Interestingly, if you opt to buy the Denrosa (possibly Gruff Rhys's are the same too) pre-assembled frames, as I did this year, they don't have the bevels, or the foundation slot. They also have a one-piece bottom bar, so no faffing about with spindly little chopsticks! They come pre-wired so no wired foundation, you just have to melt the foundation onto the wires....or pay them to do it for you

If I decide to make my own frames again when I have more time on my hands, I will definitely follow their pattern as they would be so much easier to machine and assemble, and absolutely no chance of the problem Poot had occuring, although it would limit where I could buy foundation as it is a 'custom' size....having said that, Murray's foundation is also very competetive..... I promise that I have not received any back handers or special discount!
I could of course cut down standaed unwired foundation from any number of suppliers, but we're getting into faff land again.

Mark.

 

[JamezF]

Is there anyone selling Murray's frames in small numbers, so I can have a look at them and see if they would work for me with starter strips/foundationless.

James

 

[The Poot]

I finished making my frames after receiving the delivery from Abelo. All good.
Then made a clearer board with a rhombus doobrie out of scrap ply and timber.

Sealant needs cleaning up methinks.

 

[pargyle]

Is there anyone selling Murray's frames in small numbers, so I can have a look at them and see if they would work for me with starter strips/foundationless.

James

Wilco might have a few left .. he bought a batch I think ....

 

[Garry R]

Somewhat confused . I have been looking at the sizes of Langstroth foundation compared to National. I actually want the wax space between the side bars of both frame types but can't settle on the size difference due to measurements reported by different sellers. Could someone using Langstroths measure this for me - I have Nationals so that's no problem. Perhaps there are different Langstroth sizes subtly different. Not worried about the depth as I know there are Jumbo and all sorts - just the internal width of the frame in mm if possible. Thanks.

 

[Superlativesoul]

Just completed my latest project a solar wax melter ,the door is a new double glazed unit where the the surveyor got the measurements wrong. And told my friend he could keep it, so he kindly gave to me .The angle of the solar wax melter is 35°to the horizontal to the ground ,the cabinet is mounted on a lazy Susan bearing allowing 360 ° rotation ,but not really needed for the position it's in at present .The wax when melted will pass through a varroa mesh to collect larger debris and strained through some J cloths ,All I need now is wax to melt and some long awaited sunshine .
John

 

[Antipodes]

Somewhat confused . I have been looking at the sizes of Langstroth foundation compared to National. I actually want the wax space between the side bars of both frame types but can't settle on the size difference due to measurements reported by different sellers. Could someone using Langstroths measure this for me - I have Nationals so that's no problem. Perhaps there are different Langstroth sizes subtly different. Not worried about the depth as I know there are Jumbo and all sorts - just the internal width of the frame in mm if possible. Thanks.

Gary, I'm getting 427-429mm. The foundation is 417mm.