What caused my colonies to fail?

[Arfermo]

The benefit of the wand type, like Varrox, is that you can retreat to a safe distance well before any fumes are evident, unlike systems where you are holding the device while vaping. In this respect the wand type equipment is much safer to use.

Let common sense prevail here. When one only has a couple or so hives the Varrox is enough without all the extra gear you think you might need for the gas vap or whatever. I used the Varrox when I had 6 hives without all that fussy gear without a single accidental inhalation. Battery might need topping up after a couple, so have a cuppa or three before giving it another go.

 

[Amari]

Let common sense prevail here. When one only has a couple or so hives the Varrox is enough without all the extra gear you think you might need for the gas vap or whatever. I used the Varrox when I had 6 hives without all that fussy gear without a single accidental inhalation. Battery might need topping up after a couple, so have a cuppa or three before giving it another go.

Re battery; I find a jump-start battery will power 5-6 vapes.

 

[pargyle]

Well... this thread has diverged a bit ... whilst I respect the desire of some of our members to retain the potential for permanently damaging their health by using Sublimation apparatus without PPE I rather feel that we need to have a very cautionary 'DON'T TRY THIS AT HOME' warning ...

Oxalic acid in sublimated form is a very dangerous substance - your eyes and lungs could be permanently damaged by even relatively slight exposure. Please - all those thinking about NOT using PPE with OA Sublimators take absolutely no notice of those who say they have got away without.

My past commercial life - heavily involved with PPE - is littered with accidents and one fatality on my watch that were preceeded with statements from those involved like "I was only just ... ". "I didn't think...", "It was only for a few ..." You can fill in the blanks ...

Once again OA IS A DANGEROUS SUBSTANCE - TAKE PRECAUTIONS.

 

[Amari]

Well... this thread has diverged a bit ... whilst I respect the desire of some of our members to retain the potential for permanently damaging their health by using Sublimation apparatus without PPE I rather feel that we need to have a very cautionary 'DON'T TRY THIS AT HOME' warning ...

Oxalic acid in sublimated form is a very dangerous substance - your eyes and lungs could be permanently damaged by even relatively slight exposure. Please - all those thinking about NOT using PPE with OA Sublimators take absolutely no notice of those who say they have got away without.

My past commercial life - heavily involved with PPE - is littered with accidents and one fatality on my watch that were preceeded with statements from those involved like "I was only just ... ". "I didn't think...", "It was only for a few ..." You can fill in the blanks ...

Once again OA IS A DANGEROUS SUBSTANCE - TAKE PRECAUTIONS.

Of course, I cannot disagree with your advice. I just wonder if there are any reports in the medical literature or health and safety annals of actual cases? Sorry, no time to look myself, I'm just off for a cystoscopy!

 

[pargyle]

Of course, I cannot disagree with your advice. I just wonder if there are any reports in the medical literature or health and safety annals of actual cases? Sorry, no time to look myself, I'm just off for a cystoscopy!

I don't know, but as someone who permanently damaged his nervous system, resulting in the permanent paralysis of one of my vocal chords, by spraying isocynanate polyurethane paint for a few hours without the necessary protection (I had a particulate mask but Isocyanates are invidious and can penetrate the skin by absorption), I am very cautious about PPE.

Two hours spraying and nearly 40 years of a gravelly voice, limited vocal range as a result. You always have to ask yourself - is it worth it ? My experience was in the early days of Polyurethane paints and there was ignorance of the effects of the Isocyanates ... does anyone really KNOW how little OA vapour is going to cause some detrimental effect ?

 

[Mabee]

The benefit of the wand type, like Varrox, is that you can retreat to a safe distance well before any fumes are evident, unlike systems where you are holding the device while vaping. In this respect the wand type equipment is much safer to use.

I found with the heat element in the hive i’d often smell burning, could be bee carcasses or debris but could also be flammable brace comb. This would then worry me unnecessarily for an hour or so till the smell evaporated. At least with the gas powered version the heat is outside the hive so less to worry about. I use a full face mask (even when I used that type) to vape, no point taking chances.

 

[Amari]

I found with the heat element in the hive i’d often smell burning, could be bee carcasses or debris but could also be flammable brace comb. This would then worry me unnecessarily for an hour or so till the smell evaporated. At least with the gas powered version the heat is outside the hive so less to worry about. I use a full face mask (even when I used that type) to vape, no point taking chances.

Yes, I used to insert the Varrox through the hive entrance. On a few occasions a subsequent brood box exam showed heat damage to one of the plastic frames most of my hives are equipped with. I then changed to inserting the Varrox underneath the OMF. Since then most of my hives now have under-floor entrances and I insert the Varrox from the rear but above the OMF.

 

[philipm]

Having been Hospitalised many years ago after accidentally inhaling chlorine I would suspect Oxalic would have the same effect in that it can damage your lungs. Why take the risk?

 

[Do224]

I found with the heat element in the hive i’d often smell burning, could be bee carcasses or debris but could also be flammable brace comb. This would then worry me unnecessarily for an hour or so till the smell evaporated. At least with the gas powered version the heat is outside the hive so less to worry about. I use a full face mask (even when I used that type) to vape, no point taking chances.

Never thought about brace comb...suppose could check with a torch first for any obstruction before putting the wand in

 

[oliver90owner]

Calcium oxalate is insoluble - very insoluble. We used that fact, to analys for calcium in products, some 50 years ago.

Any calcium oxalate (it WILL be formed inside you, if oxalic acid gets in). It will cause problems which we can do without. Eating rhubarb leaves is also likely not a good idea!

Not as dangerous as using cyanide for analyses, mind. BTDT too.

 

[Do224]

4277+ (or 4279+, which additionally filters ammonia compounds)

Bolle Atom Safety Goggles I bought those as they say they can be worn over normal glasses, but it will depend on your glasses style - I'm not sure big lenses will fit.


Half mask, goggles and a beesuit. What a look!

Just got home with the goggles and opened them up. They fit great. Is it ok that they are vented though (see pic)?. I was expecting them to be fully sealed to stop the vape getting in...

 

[Wilco]

Of course, I cannot disagree with your advice. I just wonder if there are any reports in the medical literature or health and safety annals of actual cases? Sorry, no time to look myself, I'm just off for a cystoscopy!

Irreversible kidney damage.

 

[pargyle]

Irreversible kidney damage.

That's not good ...

 

[mbc]

Irreversible kidney damage.

Are there any cases of this reported due to beekeepers treating with oxalic?
We've been doing it long enough (30+ years) for it to have shown up by now if it was a thing.
I haven't heard of any cases whatsoever so maybe crying wolf is a bit unnecessary.
They slosh the stuff - oxalic acid solution- about by the gallon cleaning decking, patios, yachts, and there's not a peep about contra indications. Mildly caustic is about it.
I do wear a proper mask whilst vaping but no eye protection.

 

[Newbeeneil]

Are there any cases of this reported due to beekeepers treating with oxalic?
We've been doing it long enough (30+ years) for it to have shown up by now if it was a thing.
I haven't heard of any cases whatsoever so maybe crying wolf is a bit unnecessary.
They slosh the stuff - oxalic acid solution- about by the gallon cleaning decking, patios, yachts, and there's not a peep about contra indications. Mildly caustic is about it.
I do wear a proper mask whilst vaping but no eye protection.

I wouldn't recommend getting any in the eyes! I rubbed the corner of my eye with the back of my nitrile while vaping on Sunday..... it sure did smart but a good splash of water sorted it.

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

Are there any cases of this reported due to beekeepers treating with oxalic

Or maybe just people during the war eating rhubarb leaves on government advice?

 

[Wilco]

Are there any cases of this reported due to beekeepers treating with oxalic?
We've been doing it long enough (30+ years) for it to have shown up by now if it was a thing.
I haven't heard of any cases whatsoever so maybe crying wolf is a bit unnecessary.
They slosh the stuff - oxalic acid solution- about by the gallon cleaning decking, patios, yachts, and there's not a peep about contra indications. Mildly caustic is about it.
I do wear a proper mask whilst vaping but no eye protection.

No idea if any data from beekeepers doing it but IIRC, if absorbed it precipitates out in the kidneys. More aware of it in a vet context as it is seen when cats ingest antifreeze (ethylene glycol). Usually too late to save them but treatment involves IV alcohol (vodka commonly used)...

 

[ericbeaumont]

Is it ok that they are vented?

Well, if air can escape it can also enter - unfiltered - and OA is likely to contact eye fluid.

Risk of poisoning is obviously present but as yet unquantifiable; mbc's yacht cleaning comparison is intriguing.

We need a scientist to put this in perspective; until then, best approach with belt & braces.

 

[pargyle]

Just got home with the goggles and opened them up. They fit great. Is it ok that they are vented though (see pic)?. I was expecting them to be fully sealed to stop the vape getting in...

View attachment 29903

I doubt that with the vents where they are that the sublinate will get as far as your eyes ... the vents are there to stop them steaming up. If you are concerned just put a strip of tape over the vents... look like good ones to be honest. If you are careful there won't be clouds of OA in the air when you vape . The ppe is there for that occasion when it all goes wrong... which I hope never happens.

 

[mbc]

No idea if any data from beekeepers doing it but IIRC, if absorbed it precipitates out in the kidneys. More aware of it in a vet context as it is seen when cats ingest antifreeze (ethylene glycol). Usually too late to save them but treatment involves IV alcohol (vodka commonly used)...

I'm fooked then as there's 1.7g of Oxalic Acid in every 100g of parsley and I bloody love my parsley sauce.
Seriously, there's oxalic acid in stuff we've been eating since before the first hairy ape dangled out of a tree to stand on two feet