WBC mouse problem

[CarolW]

The little conical ventilation grilles at the gable ends of my hives have been destroyed and I'm 99% sure that mice have done this and are therefore inside. Should I try to quickly dismantle a hive and take a look in the hope that it/they will run off, then block the holes with mouseguard or just leave things as they are? Four hives, all with one grille nibbled away.

 

[Erichalfbee]

Try giving the box a good thump. Mouse might run out.

 

[jonnybeegood]

Try giving the hive a kick in daytime, the bees might evict them if they realise they are there ;-)

 

[oliver90owner]

Advice on kicking and thumping is a bit irrelevant, unless the mice are climbing the inside of the lifts to exit at the roof level.

Unless there is insulation (or nesting) material in the void between boxes and outer lifts, there is nothing in there for mice.

Unless, of course, there are gaping holes for mouse access elsewhere...... So I would think it is unlikely mouse damage. But, hey, gently removing the roof and peering in should reveal any likelihood of unwanted visitors. If accessible to mice, those holes need to be reduced to just vent sized (large enough for a trapped bee to escape). More likely that wasps have gained entry at some point, was my thought - so question is: Is there access to the hive boxes (as in gaping holes in the crownboard)?

 

[jonnybeegood]

Could it have been woodpeckers trying to break in?

 

[oliver90owner]

Could it have been woodpeckers trying to break in?

Has anyone had any woodpecker damage this early in the autumn (yes, weather is still autumnal)? I doubt it, about 100%.

 

[Hivemaker.]

Could it have been woodpeckers trying to break in?

What's a woodpecker without a beak.

 

[pargyle]

Firstly, I assume you are talking about the ventilation cones on the roofs of the outer lifts of your WBC hives ?

If the plastic has been destroyed by mice then on close inspection you will see the teeth marks (like tiny scooped chisel marks) in the plastic - if they are bigger scoop marks it could be rat damage as they are looking for winter quarters at the moment and the space between the lifts and the hive could be their ideal home - rats are inquisitive creatures.

Generally rodents will not expend energy unnecessarily so something is appealing to them if it is rodent damage - and at the top of the hive it is hardly the easiest place to get at.

So a few questions:

1. Have you got mouseguards on the entrances of the hives ?

If you have then there should be no way that a mouse could get into your hives.

2. Have you got open holes in the crown board ?

If there are then close them down with a piece of tile or timber (I can't think you would have but we hear some very odd ideas on here !).

3. Have you lifted the roofs off and looked to see if there are any mouse droppings/nesting material on the crown boards or between the lifts and the hive ?

If you do find evidence of rodents then I would not risk dismantling the hive but there is nothing to stop you taking the lifts off carefully (might need someone to help you as you want to leave the hive intact) and then tilting the hive a little off its floor when, if a mouse has got in there, it should run out.

Whatever - I would get rid of the cones and tack a piece of stainless insect mesh over the holes - plenty of suitable stuff on ebay:

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/5pc-5x5cm...Equipment_Lab_Supplies_ET&hash=item2a46e2517a

 

[oliver90owner]

I would get rid of the cones

Nooo! They are there for a very good, tried and tested reason! They are part of the original design.

Replace, if damaged. They are as cheap as chips in plastic; a little more expensive in metal.

 

[pargyle]

I would get rid of the cones

Nooo! They are there for a very good, tried and tested reason! They are part of the original design.

Replace, if damaged. They are as cheap as chips in plastic; a little more expensive in metal.

So Rab .. what's the difference between the cones and a piece of stainless insect mesh ? Both provide ventilation which I assume comes about by warmer air rising and colder air coming in at the bottom of the lifts ... If the hive is assembled properly there should not need to be bee escapes at the top of the hive and if it's not assembled properly then they will go back the way they came. If there's a worry about bees being able to get out then a larger mesh size would solve that issue ...

However, I didn't realise you could still buy metal cone bee escapes - so that solves the problem of damage by unknown perpetrators and that's an excellent solution. Having said that ... I can't find anyone who still sells the metal ones ...

 

[Moggett]

So Rab .. what's the difference between the cones and a piece of stainless insect mesh ? Both provide ventilation which I assume comes about by warmer air rising and colder air coming in at the bottom of the lifts ... If the hive is assembled properly there should not need to be bee escapes at the top of the hive and if it's not assembled properly then they will go back the way they came. If there's a worry about bees being able to get out then a larger mesh size would solve that issue ...

However, I didn't realise you could still buy metal cone bee escapes - so that solves the problem of damage by unknown perpetrators and that's an excellent solution. Having said that ... I can't find anyone who still sells the metal ones ...

The difference is that mesh is to keep them in, the cone to let them out. Bees get 'lost' in the higher internal space above the internal boxes, the cones provide an escape route.

http://www.dave-cushman.net/bee/coneescapes.html

 

[oliver90owner]

The difference is that mesh is to keep them in, the cone to let them out.

Thanks, Moggett. Absolutely correct - a bee escape for any bees left in the cavity after inspections. A simple design idea that has been used for a hundred years or more. Re-inventing the wheel is not necessary and using mesh is inappropriate, unless one does not mind the possibility of losing large numbers of bees at some inspections.

We need to remember the simple concept of bees flying upwards towards the light, so any chink of light entering the outer lifts would mean death to any bees that are left behind in the void between boxes and lifts, hence the installation of a light source and escape all in the one simple package, placed near the roof and providing ventilation for the roof space as well. Brilliant simple design by a thinking WBC.

 

[pargyle]

The difference is that mesh is to keep them in, the cone to let them out. Bees get 'lost' in the higher internal space above the internal boxes, the cones provide an escape route.

http://www.dave-cushman.net/bee/coneescapes.html

Yes ... I know that ... but ... going back to the OP ... if something is gnawing a way through the plastic ones that seem to be universally sold now (I can't find a supplier of metal one - perhaps someone else can ?) then what is the difference between a conical bee escape and a piece of mesh of a gauge/size that a bee can get through but a rodent can't ... ?

 

[Hivemaker.]

A piece of mesh would allow bees to pass out, but would also allow them, and wasps to go in, which in some cases may not be so good, a cone escape is only supposed to allow exit of bees, not entry.

 

[Moggett]

A piece of mesh would allow bees to pass out, but would also allow them, and wasps to go in, which in some cases may not be so good, a cone escape is only supposed to allow exit of bees, not entry.

Yes, and there are still wasps around - saw some today.

 

[pargyle]

The difference is that mesh is to keep them in, the cone to let them out.

Thanks, Moggett. Absolutely correct - a bee escape for any bees left in the cavity after inspections. A simple design idea that has been used for a hundred years or more. Re-inventing the wheel is not necessary and using mesh is inappropriate, unless one does not mind the possibility of losing large numbers of bees at some inspections.

We need to remember the simple concept of bees flying upwards towards the light, so any chink of light entering the outer lifts would mean death to any bees that are left behind in the void between boxes and lifts, hence the installation of a light source and escape all in the one simple package, placed near the roof and providing ventilation for the roof space as well. Brilliant simple design by a thinking WBC.

Thanks Rab ... as I've never had a WBC of my own I had not considered the possibility of trapping bees in between the hive and the lifts when putting it back together - although on the couple of occasions when I have been involved in a WBC inspection (did I mention that WBC was a fellow Yorkshireman ?) this did not seem to be a problem - once the last box and the crown board was on, the roof was left off the lifts for a few minutes and what few stragglers there were had gone ... But I'm not for reinventing the wheel .. although it seems that someone in the past has decided to reinvent, in cheap plastic, an excellent bit of kit that WBC invented that would last a lifetime in diecast aluminium or probably brass when it originally appeared. Something that now appears to be extinct .... prey to the cheap plastic imitation revolution.

 

[pargyle]

A piece of mesh would allow bees to pass out, but would also allow them, and wasps to go in, which in some cases may not be so good, a cone escape is only supposed to allow exit of bees, not entry.

Now that makes more sense ... although on an earlier thread about bee escapes I recall someone putting a dowel in the centre hole to block it up as wasps had mastered the art of getting in through there ...

 

[Dishmop]

I can't find a supplier of metal one

Stainless steel kitchen funnel?

 

[pargyle]

Stainless steel kitchen funnel?

Great lateral thinking ... this would probably do the job and it's even got a hole to screw it to the hive !!

http://www.jamjarshop.com/buy/minifunnel/?catid=36

Or this might be the same - with free delivery:

[ame="http://www.amazon.co.uk/Kitchen-Craft-Stainless-Steel-Funnel/dp/B0001IWYKA"]Kitchen Craft Stainless Steel Mini Funnel 5.5cm: Amazon.co.uk: Kitchen & Home[/ame]

 

[oliver90owner]

A cone in perforated aluminium sheet is not exactly difficult to make. A blue peter childrens activity (if any sharp edges are taped over)! Arranging for it to have a small central hole is even easier. It is not like there are thousands required, or is nearly everybody devoid of simple origami skills as well as other practical skills these days? Beekeeping is a simple practical skill/craft/art, or whatever you might want to call it?