Wasps

[Erichalfbee]

Hi , Had the same problem a month ago, used same trap as you have, did the trick. You caught quite a few, what did you use with the activator to attract them in? Hope we have no more problems with wasps & hornets this year.

Kronenbourg 1664.......on special at the supermarket ( I now still have 2 cans for next year ) and honey.

 

[sharonh]

Kronenbourg 1664.......on special at the supermarket ( I now still have 2 cans for next year ) and honey.

Thanks Erichalfbee, Must keep an eye out for that. And you mixed some honey into it. I was afraid to do that ,incase my bees would go into the trap. I used pressed apple juice & sweet beer, works great. I have ordered another trap,just to have a second one for next year. They really are the best job for around the hives.

 

[Karol]

Accuracy is important and I have a genuine, if amateur, interest in wasps so if your information does not align with existing science you must expect challenge. I don't see why you should have a problem stating where you got the 4-5 tonne figure and it would be a more direct and relevant approach.

I have no problem with being challenged but the impression you give (whether you mean to or not) is that you are doing so for ideological rather than scientific reasons hence the nit picking. This is a debating forum where opinions and experience can be expressed for readers to take them or leave them. I'm not accountable to you. By all means disagree with what I have to say. By all means offer a contrary position. But don't expect me to reference every comment I make to a 'trusted source' because when it comes to wasps there are very few 'corroborated' sources.

As I've previously posted, I can't remember where the 4-5 metric ton figure came from and I'm not about to look for it. I certainly didn't invent it and as previously posted I questionned it when I first came upon it because it sounded like a typo, i.e. I thought it should have been 4-5 Kg. I spent some time 'corroborating' the figure by looking at insect weights, foraging loads and frequency of foraging flights, wasp demographics etc etc from other sources and came to the conclusion that it isn't actually an unrealistic figure.

Have you worked out the flaw in the NZ papers yet? I'll give you a clue, it's in one of the titles!

 

[Erichalfbee]

Thanks Erichalfbee, Must keep an eye out for that. And you mixed some honey into it. I was afraid to do that ,incase my bees would go into the trap. I used pressed apple juice & sweet beer, works great. I have ordered another trap,just to have a second one for next year. They really are the best job for around the hives.

I had two traps, one between each pair of hives but put them in place only after I'd seen wasps. I think for best practice they should be in situ before the wasp season starts (Karol will correct me, hopefully, if I'm wrong)
One is still there and has caught a few wasps but neither hive is really bothered by them.
The one pictured was moved right up to the entrance...shows how pin point their target is... and worked a treat.

 

[Chris Luck]

I've not been reading this but is it being said that an average wasp nest will kill between 4,000 to 5,000 Kg of insects per season which as you say is 4-5 metric tonnes?

I'm sure I've misread this

Chris

 

[Chris Luck]

I had two traps, one between each pair of hives but put them in place only after I'd seen wasps. I think for best practice they should be in situ before the wasp season starts (Karol will correct me, hopefully, if I'm wrong)
One is still there and has caught a few wasps but neither hive is really bothered by them.
The one pictured was moved right up to the entrance...shows how pin point their target is... and worked a treat.

If I was going to put an attractant anywhere it would be a good distance from any hives. Here all the wasp family are busy feeding on fallen and hanging fruit as I said before, not going anywhere near the hives.

Give them something easy and juicy to enjoy.

Chris

 

[sharonh]

I had two traps, one between each pair of hives but put them in place only after I'd seen wasps. I think for best practice they should be in situ before the wasp season starts (Karol will correct me, hopefully, if I'm wrong)
One is still there and has caught a few wasps but neither hive is really bothered by them.
The one pictured was moved right up to the entrance...shows how pin point their target is... and worked a treat.

Yes, think they have a protein diet early in the season ,but from July on, it goes to a sweet diet where the trap comes in. I would definitely recommend it, it's the only business around the hives that works I think. There is another type of trap iv seen. It has a twin chamber. One chamber is designed to bait for early season, and the other chamber for late season. Can be left out from spring, so catches a lot of the queens. I must look more into it.

 

[Erichalfbee]

If I was going to put an attractant anywhere it would be a good distance from any hives. Here all the wasp family are busy feeding on fallen and hanging fruit as I said before, not going anywhere near the hives.

Give them something easy and juicy to enjoy.

Chris

I'm sure that would work, Chris.
Just the thought of the tons of rotting fruit I would have to prepare over two months is a little daunting.
There must be hundreds of nests in the surrounding hedgerows.

 

[victor meldrew]

The odd opportunist wasp crawling in the grass searching out dead bees !
No big deal!
The second year the wasps have been noticeable by their absence !
VM

 

[Putnamsmif]

The odd opportunist wasp crawling in the grass searching out dead bees !
No big deal!
The second year the wasps have been noticeable by their absence !
VM

Same here. I closed my entrances to a bee space being a paranoid newbie when I first saw wasps round my hives, but the bees were piling up at the entrance so I opened them up again and to be honest I haven't seen a wasp over the last 2 weeks.

 

[Karol]

I've not been reading this but is it being said that an average wasp nest will kill between 4,000 to 5,000 Kg of insects per season which as you say is 4-5 metric tonnes?

I'm sure I've misread this

Chris

Which is what I thought originally, but nope - 4 to 5 metric tonnes is the figure.


http://www.insectscience.org/11.103/i1536-2442-11-103.pdf states;

The wasp collected
a piece of meat, then flew away, and returned
approximately eight minutes later, on average.

So, to corroborate the numbers;

16 daylight flying hours in Summer = say 100 trips per wasp per day.

For 5000 foraging wasps.

500,000 trips per day. Carrying load between 0.05 and 0.08g per flight = up to 40Kg per day.

The rest is weather dependent.

It's not difficult to see that 4-5 metric tonnes is not unrealistic (but clearly subject to fluctuation based on environmental conditions, i.e. length of hunting season, population curves and abundance of prey).

 

[Chris Luck]

Interesting but not really applicable to a natural situation, quite a lot anyway if there was a strong colony, the weather was fine enough and there was enough food easily available.

What it does tell us is that by and large my attitude is correct, we need to maximize our bio diversity if everything is going to eat - which we know is a problem already for insect eaters.

Chris

 

[user 6228]

try working out how much water bees expel from a hive in a year... thats another very surprisiing number...

 

[PBee]

......

So, to corroborate the numbers;

16 daylight flying hours in Summer = say 100 trips per wasp per day.

For 5000 foraging wasps.

500,000 trips per day. Carrying load between 0.05 and 0.08g per flight = up to 40Kg per day.

The rest is weather dependent.

It's not difficult to see that 4-5 metric tonnes is not unrealistic (but clearly subject to fluctuation based on environmental conditions, i.e. length of hunting season, population curves and abundance of prey).

The average mean numbers of workers present in the nest in England -

The maximum mean number of workers varies according to species and geographical location. Thus for P. vulgaris, it is 474 workers from the Pacific North-West, 2,094 from England and 2,720 from New Zealand. For P. germanica, the number of workers for England (1,530) is similar to that for New Zealand (1,440). http://www.academia.edu/1463476/Archer_2008a_Taxonomy_Distribution_and_Nesting_biology_of_the_species_of_the_Genus_Paravespula_or_the_Vespula_Vulgaris_group_Hymenoptera_Vespidae_

Of the 1500 - 2000 workers present when the nest around maximum these will be divided into those foraging and those remaining in the nest, and the foragers further subdivided into the different foraging categories.

Because wasps don't store protein they obviously only collect it in response to larval needs. So a more realistic approach may be to look at the overall wasp production of the average nest.

A mean colony of P. germanica would produce 9,839 wasps including 6,461 workers, 2,112 males (2,070 from small cells, 42 from large cells) and 1,266 queens. A mean colony of P. vulgaris would produce 8,982 wasps including 6,392 workers, 1,476 males (1,405 from small cells, 71 from large cells) and 1,114 males. (Archer 2008)

On this basis, your figures suggest that 4-5 tonnes of protein food is required to raise 9 - 10 thousand wasps (total weight around 1kg?).

 

[Karol]

The average mean numbers of workers present in the nest in England -

Of the 1500 - 2000 workers present when the nest around maximum these will be divided into those foraging and those remaining in the nest, and the foragers further subdivided into the different foraging categories.

Because wasps don't store protein they obviously only collect it in response to larval needs. So a more realistic approach may be to look at the overall wasp production of the average nest.



On this basis, your figures suggest that 4-5 tonnes of protein food is required to raise 9 - 10 thousand wasps (total weight around 1kg?).

Nope! My earlier post on exoskeletons didn't sink in then did it? Try again PBee.

I re-iterate, the 4-5 metric tonnes is not my figure. I am happy that it is realistic.

 

[PBee]

I have no problem with being challenged but .......

It seems you may ..... it's hard to disguise tone - even without volume.

 

[Gilberdyke John]

It seems you may ..... it's hard to disguise tone - even without volume.

Is this saga headed for the pests environmental and political issues section?

 

[Karol]

It seems you may ..... it's hard to disguise tone - even without volume.

Not at all. Challenge all you like.

You say that accuracy is important to you and you have been critical of my postings (not to mention my intentions viz other threads). It would help if the 'basis' of your challenges was accurate in the first place. If you have a genuine interest then ask the questions and I will be happy to share what I 'understand' about wasps. If you elect a more adversorial approach don't be surprised if I suggest you go away and do a little more homework to improve the basis of your challenges where I see inaccuracies in them.

 

[mbc]

If you have a genuine interest then ask the questions and I will be happy to share what I 'understand'

Give a man a fish and he will eat for a day,
Teach a man to fish and he will spend most of the rest of his time getting pissed in boats.

 

[Karol]

Give a man a fish and he will eat for a day,
Teach a man to fish and he will spend most of the rest of his time getting pissed in boats.

And if the drink is Krupnik then so much the better! LOL.