Varroa Treatment And Queen Rearing

[petermcc]

I am planning to rear some queens using a standard grafting method.

I am wondering whether it will be a problem if the cell builder colony has varroa treatment in it at the time? It will be bayvoral.

Also when I am putting the cells into nucs to emerge and mate those nucs will likely have bayvoral in them too. Any anticipated problems with that?

 

[Brosville]

A largely discredited and now ineffective treatment in the UK - mites are now resistant to it, so it's essentially useless...........

 

[Poly Hive]

Waste of time really using it.

The normal time for queen rearing is well past too.

PH

 

[BeeJayBee]

The normal time for queen rearing is well past too.

It's possible OP is in New Zealand?

 

[Poly Hive]

In which case the advice from there may well be more applicable? http://www.nzbees.net/forum/

PH

 

[newportbuzz]

In which case the advice from there may well be more applicable? http://www.nzbees.net/forum/

PH

its all backwards. they are just starting grafts funny to read it isnt it.

 

[Into the lions den]

A largely discredited and now ineffective treatment in the UK - mites are now resistant to it, so it's essentially useless...........

First read the posters whereabouts. NZ............

Discredited? Where has Bayvarol been discredited? Very negative term there and one that Bayer might quite like to see you using. Flumethrin was a very effective mite killer.

Ineffective? Well yes, too many years with too little changing of regimes and then its efficacy declines. But as you correctly say..in the UK (and much of Europe too fwiw) its ineffective, but I doubt that is of much interest in Auckland.

 

[Brosville]

Oh dear what a shame, someone being less than complimentary about a Bayer product which is now effectively useless in the UK......... it is definitely discredited as a viable treatment for varroa in the UK owing to it's over use and abuse.... it is no longer seen as useful or viable as a remedy - entirely within the meaning of the word "discredited"

"Bayer might quite like to see you using" - tough! - let 'em live with it - in my opinion one of the most amoral companies on the planet, with a history that people wouldn't believe if you'd made it up...........

 

[beebreeder]

Hold on a minute, the original OP was asking about the possible issues with Bayvarol in cell raisers and mating Nucs/colonies, no one has actually answered his enquiry, as usual its turned into a "lets attack Bayer thread" and that should be in the pesticides area not here. The only problem that we had in uk with Pyretheroids was drones going dry and that was completely unproven, the situation in the uk is such that either product was used in the Autumn to get mites down before winter, therefore the products were rarely in hives during the active queen rearing season.

 

[Poly Hive]

Only one attack on anything here that I see.

I personally would not want to be treating a colony with anything when trying to start queens, just a gut feeling that the more normal the situation the better for the process. Personally I would not be treating with anything whilst grafting and so on.

PH

 

[Into the lions den]

now effectively useless in the UK......... it is definitely discredited as a viable treatment for varroa in the UK owing to it's over use and abuse.... it is no longer seen as useful or viable as a remedy - entirely within the meaning of the word "discredited"......

Bayvarol has not been discredited................and thats entirely a different matter from the agreed position of it now being of little use in the UK. Discredited means far more than that, and is probably what you mean with your one eyed hobby horse, and your last sentence is just you weaseling out of an over emotive remark yet again.

Bayvarol saved countless thousands of colonies in the UK when it was the only show in town. Its no use now, agreed, but to condemn it as discredited when in fact it did a good job for far too long is just wrong.

Dictionary meanings......
discredit
1. To damage in reputation; disgrace.
2. To cause to be doubted or distrusted.
3. To refuse to believe.

These meanings fit perfectly well with your attitude, so leave off the moving of the goalposts. The word 'obsolete' would have done well enough and is factual and unemotive.

You described it as discredited to a New Zealand member, where, in all probablility, it is still a perfectly good treatment.

 

[Brosville]

Semantic pedantry of the very worst sort, attempting to bend my use of the English language to mean what suits your agenda - to repeat, Bayvarol is discredited as a treatment in the UK - "obsolete" didn't have the precise meaning I sought, so I didn't use it.

I rather resent the implied threat that big bad Bayer is going to get cross with me for telling the truth about one of their now "useless in the UK" remedies

As for it being "useful" in New Zealand, I doubt it will be of use for any longer than it was here as by it's very nature will lead to resistant mites. UK beekeepers now have many remedies that don't appear to have the same problems, so perhaps our friend from NZ would be wise to follow their lead, rather than using the products of the pesticide industry - and as has been said, many wouldn't use any such treatment when trying to raise queens.

 

[Into the lions den]

Semantic pedantry of the very worst sort, attempting to bend my use of the English language to mean what suits your agenda - to repeat, Bayvarol is discredited as a treatment in the UK - "obsolete" didn't have the precise meaning I sought, so I didn't use it.

Elucidate please................you take up your ceremonial posture....yet your words pretty well add up to exactly what I said..................you are comical at times.

 

[For want of a better word]

I am planning to rear some queens using a standard grafting method.

I am wondering whether it will be a problem if the cell builder colony has varroa treatment in it at the time? It will be bayvoral.

Also when I am putting the cells into nucs to emerge and mate those nucs will likely have bayvoral in them too. Any anticipated problems with that?

IMOCLO I would Ditch the Bayvarol and Vaporise colonies with Oxallic Acid to knock down the varroa.

OR you could run one lot with Bayvarol and another without and see what results you get?

 

[Into the lions den]

Apologies to those reading this thread for getting involved. I am doing my VAT etc while the bees are on the heather and am far too easily distracted. I will desist before it gets any sillier.

 

[Poly Hive]

LOL

VAT and Bross....

Deadly combo.

Have fun, we left the damn scheme when we found we were earning nothing at all as we were just working for HMG.

PH

 

[For want of a better word]

LOL

VAT and Bross....

Deadly combo.

Have fun, we left the damn scheme when we found we were earning nothing at all as we were just working for HMG.

PH

and the bank took the remainder!!

 

[Into the lions den]

Have fun, we left the damn scheme when we found we were earning nothing at all as we were just working for HMG.

PH

I kind of have to. Last year I got over 15K back.

 

[farbee]

Bayvarol has not been discredited................and thats entirely a different matter from the agreed position of it now being of little use in the UK. Discredited means far more than that, and is probably what you mean with your one eyed hobby horse, and your last sentence is just you weaseling out of an over emotive remark yet again.

Bayvarol saved countless thousands of colonies in the UK when it was the only show in town. Its no use now, agreed, but to condemn it as discredited when in fact it did a good job for far too long is just wrong.

Dictionary meanings......
discredit
1. To damage in reputation; disgrace.
2. To cause to be doubted or distrusted.
3. To refuse to believe.

These meanings fit perfectly well with your attitude, so leave off the moving of the goalposts. The word 'obsolete' would have done well enough and is factual and unemotive.

You described it as discredited to a New Zealand member, where, in all probablility, it is still a perfectly good treatment.

Discredited implied it was never of any use.

 

[Brosville]

It didn't, the exact phraseology was "A largely discredited and now ineffective treatment in the UK" it IS a now largely discredited and ineffective a treatment in the UK- you are trying to read all sorts of other things into what I wrote - I used plain English to express what I was trying to say, and you should read it in context for the subtle nuances of what I said.

I will take the opportunity to point out that such chemical nostrums can only ever be a short-term fix, as the mites will develop immunities, so it is probably very wise to seek other methods before using such things - particularly as the Penn State team found vast chemical cocktails in hives suffering from CCD, many of which were beekeeper administered synthetic pyrethroids...........