Varroa problem

[Pete Nicholson]

Don't bother with the dusting!
Keep them closed down.

Sound advice ITMA. Thanks
P.

 

[Chris B]

Would it be necessary to treat with oxalic if there was a good drop from Apistan?

Not necessary to save the colony maybe.
But any remaining mites are Apistan resistant so killing those with oxalic acid gives you more scope for using Apistan again in future.

 

[Suzi Q]

Good point Chris B, about the remaining mites possibly being Apistan resistant. With all the treatments I've given this hive I hope to have mite-free bees next year.

 

[Finman]

Apistan resistant mites has been in Europe ten years. Very few use Apistan any more. 2005 all beekeepers in Denmark used Oxalic.

It does not tell anythoing that you get a good mite drop. It does not tell how much is still in the hive.

You have now opportunity to see, how much you get in December when you put Oxalic in.

.
I just read a report that last winter was bad in Switzerland. Many beekeepers lost over 50% hives to varroa.

 

[oliver90owner]

Apistan resistant mites will return if the treatment is used regularly. Varroa took some while to gain that resistance initially but it may return very quickly (who knows?).

We do not know if the current mites are resistant, or how reasstant, as there are likely still those out there that continue to use these types of miticides regularly.

Those not killed by the treatment and not 'nailed' by the oxalic will likely be resistant to apistan to some extent. That may well mean that all the mites present in the spring will have resistance.

Sooo, use of apistan/bayvarol should be prudent and reserved for emergencies where some mite reduction is urgent and unobtainable by other means. I do use it occasionally (not in the last three years, now) but I don't know how many id-i-ots nearby are using it on a regular basis, so I don't rely on a high efficacy - just a 50% reduction in mite number would be enough to avert a pending disaster in these isolated instances and allow the alternative IPM methods to be insigated at the earliest opportunity.

Apistan is so easily available (but does have a shelf-life, so beware). It appears to have very little impact on the bees (was used for years bedfore resistance took hold). It is just that the beek needs to think of the alternatives and the rammifications of not taking prompt action. That seems to be the stumbling block around the forum - some have such tunnel vision that they even when they know the train is coming they still think all is well.

 

[Finman]

.
One big problem in Apistan was that it contaminates wax as a fat soluble stuff.
Luckily guys have forgotten this now, but they remember that Oxalic acid contaminates wax.

Life is almost perfect.

Olivers home made science: " just a 50% reduction in mite number would be enough"

the fact is that mite douple itself in one month and next month it is at same level and it will violate badly winter bees.


Amen to kitchen science ! ( European varroa group has done vain work during their 10 years job)

.

 

[Pete Nicholson]

OK - some results which are meaningless at the moment till I get some more.
22 Hr. drop count today after introduction of apistan treatment:
Hive 1 - 37 mites
Hive 2 - 830 mites
On inspection yesterday when applying Apistan I would estimate that numbers in hive 2 are about 80% that in hive 1.
Not used Apistan before.
These are hand counted not estimates.
P.

 

[Finman]

.
My hives had Apistan resistant mites and I lost 60% of my hives in winter 2002/3

System goes so that you had some resistant mites and 90% of normal mites have died.
Then next summer, or next summer only the resistant mites multify themselves.


I cannot understand what idea is to return to use Apistan again. I cannot se not a single idea in that.

First reason is that Apistan is expencive.

.

 

[Pete Nicholson]

Finman - this is the first time I have used Apistan and I feel it has to be my first line of defense.
Hopefully I can save the colony at this late stage - I am a novice and learning all the time.
Appreciate that the mites may be resistant but the initial results are promising.
Will update results as acquired.
best regards
Pete.

 

[Pete Nicholson]

Oliver - good point and I would not use on a regular basis for exactly this reason. Agree about the stumbling block - I am probably as guilty as the rest of us new beeks : but hopefully I'm learning.
P.

 

[richardbees]

Pete N

You should bear in mind that Finman (mainland Europe) has always had V whereas we were free of it, like Rabies, until mid 1990s. I think it was 1997 when I saw the first mite in one of my hives.

So, as you are a UK beek, I'd suggest you follow advice from our resident expert UK beeks on V control

rich

 

[Pete Nicholson]

Thanks Richard - but I relish Finmans posts so will always take his views into account but may not always follow them.
I belong to my Local Bee keepers assoc. which was the first to report Varroa in this country.
;o)
P.

 

[Finman]

Thanks Richard - but I relish Finmans posts so will always take his views into account but may not always follow them.
I belong to my Local Bee keepers assoc. which was the first to report Varroa in this country.
;o)
P.

Don't give up your Apistan. It is your only safety.

 

[richardbees]

Pete, yes - hives close to a port - was it Brixham?

I remember the first V article in the old A5 format "Beecraft" with the suggestion it was in a swarm that came over the channel on a small freighter.

Hope you enjoy beekeeping as much as I have!

rich

 

[oliver90owner]

Don't give up your Apistan. It is your only safety.

Absolute --------/---- and we all know it. Apistan is just one of the 'safer' alternatives in this particular scenario, amongst several options. Certainly not the only one. As we should all be well aware, I, for one, do not treat with oxalic acid unless I really need to. Yes, it is on the shelf (well, in a cupboard actually) and would be used if necessary.

But apistan strips in a month ago would likely have avoided this recent plea for help. Nothing like making observations and not acting on them. Just like a lot of the 'two hive owners' who cannot leave the bees alone during the quieter months or must inspect regardless of there being nothing to inspect for, or no means of changing anything.

A little thought of all the varroa treatments and reducing down to a short list of possibles is only sensible if you know when, and if, and how to use any and all the alternatives.

Blinkered, seeing oxalic, oxalic, and oxalic only, with the alternatives hidden from view is not a particularly good policy IMO. Perhaps that is why IPM works for those that can and doesn't for those that can't.

 

[Pete Nicholson]

Bit Harsh oliver - I followed the treatment regime - but it did not work this year and now I have problems and as a new beek did not recognise them in time and accept that; - but I am trying my best to remedy. You old hands sometimes do not seem to remember when you started and had mentors. They are few and far but well received when you can get one. I find this forum very helpful (mostly) and give acknowledgements when I feel I recieve good advice - as I have from you at times. We newbees are here to learn from the this forum and must accept critique when we err. But please lighten up - this should be a forum for all of us with the experienced passing on knowledge to benefit the newcomers to this wonderful hobby.
No offence meant or intended,
regards
P.

 

[Pete Nicholson]

Richard,
I'm in Torquay so v. close to Brixham where I worked for 34 years before retirement.
Local assoc. is Cockington (torbay BKA) and they have a plaque on the clubhouse to commemorate the first finding of Varroa.
regards,
P.

 

[oliver90owner]

Sorry if it hit a nerve, but it was mainly a bland response to our finnish beekeeper who derides any varroa treatment except oxalic acid and continually refers to 'two hive owners'. The reason for the post was not to deride anyone in particular, but to try to get across that beekeeping is all about making simple observations and acting on them - even if only by re-checking if the initial results were not clear.

No point in observing unless there is some benefit - either enjoyment to simply watch the bees at work or, for instance, to rectify the problems inflicted by beekeepers on bees (varroa, per eg). There are many new beeks our there reading this thread (I hope) and they should all be made abundantly aware of the simplicity of beekeeping and the wide choice of alternatives available to correct any small problems noted, as they arise.

Perhaps reading the emboldened header would give some inkling as to the topic points under discussion. Additionally,one should never think 'I can't do anything about a (serious) problem' unless resigned to the strong possibility of losing the colony. There will likely be a simple answer to the problem, a problem which will likely escalate if not addressed at the early stages.

 

[REDWOOD]

I also don't use oxalic acid, but there might be a day when I will need to, until then I will continue treating my way. Thought is a wonderful thing and often great thinkers think alike

 

[richardbees]

plaque on the clubhouse to commemorate the first finding of Varroa.

Pete

Thanks....and it's that attitude that makes us British!!

richard