Varroa feed on bees’ fat bodies

[Erichalfbee]

Really good information and has changed the way we view varroa.

 

[Newbeeneil]

His talk on Tropilaelaps is frightening!

 

[charlievictorbravo]

His discovery does rather beg the question "How does Oxalic Acid, in a syrup solution, get to the soft parts of the varroa mite, largely hidden under the external segments of the exoskeleton, and kill it or at least make it let go?". I can see that OA vapour might find its way under there but a liquid?

There's still more work to be done on Varroa but who will do it now that Samuel has his PhD, a doctorate that was thoroughly deserved for its questioning of the accepted truth? His research was truly amazing.

CVB

 

[MrGroundControl]

I thought I’d sticky this here
It’s really good information and has changed the way we view varroa.

 

[MrGroundControl]

I watched this on another group last week, very informative, with the research "Sam" did let's hope he Carrie's on and finds a way to eradicate the dreaded mites

 

[Htel]

I thought I’d sticky this here
It’s really good information and has changed the way we view varroa.

This is excellent science and well presented-thanks for posting

 

[BeeGiner]

Thanks Erichalfbee. I learned so much about Varroa from this video.
In my opinion this is a must watch for everyone interested in Varroa i.e. all beekeepers.

 

[Beegarden]

I quite agree BeeGiner, what an incredibly talented young man. I'm going to pass on the link to my beekeeping mates. Many thanks Erichalfbee.

 

[BugsInABox]

So do we stop calling them phoretic.

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

So do we stop calling them phoretic.

Hey, this is beekeeping - it will be another 100 years before anyone cottons on!

 

[pargyle]

Hey, this is beekeeping - it will be another 100 years before anyone cottons on!

Always the optimist !

 

[understanding_bees]

It’s really good information and has changed the way we view varroa.

Thank you Dani for bringing this to our attention. Actually I want to say, "to my attention". When I first saw that the duration of this video was going to be nearly one and a quarter hours, I thought about the other things I wanted to get done today. However, as I watched I became more and more aware that this was a very significant presentation, and I found that I was trying to absorb every bit of information that was being presented.
I find myself hoping that Dr Samuel Ramsey could be persuaded to continue his research into every aspect of the biology of Varroa Destructor. He has done a great deal of research which has gone a long way in helping us to understand how bees are affected by varroa mites. This has been a complete "eye-opener" for me, but it hardly scratches the surface of how the varroa mite can be defeated.
From the various comments on the forum, it appears that oxalic acid vaporisation provides a method of killing varroa mites in a hive, but it does not address the problem of varroa mites which are parasitising bee larvae. I have the impression that it will only be when there is a more complete knowledge and understanding of varroa mite biology that the bees can be freed from such a nasty enemy.
Perhaps it is for some of the information that Dr Samuel Ramsey gave in his presentation that I am thankful that Australia is still free of varroa. However, as one beekeeper in Australia was heard to say, "We do not have varroa in Australia - yet". There are sentinel hives near major Australian ports, and varroa have already been intercepted on Australian soil. The real goal, not just for Australia but the rest of the world as well, should be finding ways in which we can actively attack the life cycle of the varroa mite.

 

[understanding_bees]

Hey, this is beekeeping - it will be another 100 years before anyone cottons on!

The real difficulty is to find ways to encourage beekeepers to take the problem seriously. The greatest difficulty will be in getting EVERY beekeeper to take the problem seriously. Even if most beekeepers take the problem seriously, it only takes a few non-conformers to enable there to be reservoirs of varroa infection.
Perhaps one method might be for there to be compulsory registration of beekeepers, as there is in Victoria, Australia where I live. But then, I think I have seen indications on this forum that there are many who might disagree with this approach.

 

[Erichalfbee]

Thank you Dani for bringing this to our attention.
From the various comments on the forum, it appears that oxalic acid vaporisation provides a method of killing varroa mites in a hive, but it does not address the problem of varroa mites which are parasitising bee larvae.

I'm glad you found it interesting. It is indeed a very important discovery
Sublimating oxalic does actually address the problem of varroa in the brood. If you keep the infection rate low then some varroa in the larvae is of little consequence.
You will never rid a colony of every mite

 

[bingevader]

Don't know if this has been posted before, looks like his paper.
Varroa destructor feeds primarily on honey bee fat body tissue and not hemolymph
(or haemolymph for those this side of the pond)

 

[understanding_bees]

Sublimating oxalic does actually address the problem of varroa in the brood.

I find your comment interesting, because it seems that you are confident in making this claim. I do not have experience with varroa (nor do I want to) and I do not want to disagree with you. There have been plenty of comments within the discussion threads of this forum which indicate that varroa "treatments" are only of immediate benefit to bees, and not to larvae which have yet to emerge as fully formed bees. It is for this reason that I would ask you to explain why you believe that "Sublimating oxalic does actually address the problem of varroa in the brood."
I have not seen any explanation of the actual mechanism or process by which vaporised oxalic acid kills varroa mites. I would appreciate any advice from whoever may be able to give definitive information on this subject.
Thinking about the Youtube video of Dr Samuel Ramsey, it seems fairly clear that the most easily observed varroa mites in a hive are the ones which are riding on the thorax of bees. These varroa are seeking to hitch-hike a ride onto another bee, because the bee that they have been feeding on (and which they are trying to leave) is already one of the "walking dead"! By the time a varroa mite leaves a bee, it seems (based on Dr Ramsey's presentation) that the bee is doomed to die because its "fat body" has been eaten out.
I think that one of the most sinister aspects of the varroa mite's feeding attack on a bee is that it embeds itself so deeply into the the bee's abdominal tissue. The mite not only embeds itself, but digs its claws into the bees abdomen so that it will not be easily dislodged. In this situation, much of the mites external surface area would be protected from exposure to oxalic acid vapor. Can you provide information which gives absolute confirmation that such an embedded mite will be killed by oxalic acid vapor?

You made another comment, "If you keep the infection rate low then some varroa in the larvae is of little consequence."

It would seem apparent that varroa are not effectively exterminated by these vapor treatments. The fact that repeated applications of vapor are recommended - even if it is for the purpose of treating bees which have emerged since the previous treatment - would seem to indicate that this is so.
Please do not misunderstand my interest in this subject. I can feel as much empathy with you over varroa infestations as if we had the problem here. I have the very uncomfortable feeling that the varroa problem is so persistent because the treatments which have been discovered, and are being used, are not nearly as complete an answer as we would wish them to be. It is a bit like saying that we are treating the symptoms, rather than the malady.
If we say that "some varroa in the larvae is of little consequence", then we are continually leaving our hives open for re-infection. It is because the problem is real that I would like to encourage the greatest level of cooperation between beekeepers, in being as diligent as possible in using the available treatments, and using them conscientiously, in accordance with the directions for use. In this way greater mitigation of the problem may be achieved while work is undertaken to find a better cure.

 

[Erichalfbee]

I find your comment interesting, because it seems that you are confident in making this claim. I do not have experience with varroa (nor do I want to) and I do not want to disagree with you. There have been plenty of comments within the discussion threads of this forum which indicate that varroa "treatments" are only of immediate benefit to bees, and not to larvae which have yet to emerge as fully formed bees. It is for this reason that I would ask you to explain why you believe that "Sublimating oxalic does actually address the problem of varroa in the brood."
I have not seen any explanation of the actual mechanism or process by which vaporised oxalic acid kills varroa mites. I would appreciate any advice from whoever may be able to give definitive information on this subject.
Thinking about the Youtube video of Dr Samuel Ramsay, it seems fairly clear that the most easily observed varroa mites in a hive are the ones which are riding on the thorax of bees. These varroa are seeking to hitch-hike a ride onto another bee, because the bee that they have been feeding on (and which they are trying to leave) is already one of the "walking dead"! By the time a varroa mite leaves a bee, it seems (based on Dr Ramsay's presentation) that the bee is doomed to die because its "fat body" has been eaten out.
I think that one of the most sinister aspects of the varroa mite's feeding attack on a bee is that it embeds itself so deeply into the the bee's abdominal tissue. The mite not only embeds itself, but digs its claws into the bees abdomen so that it will not be easily dislodged. In this situation, much of the mites external surface area would be protected from exposure to oxalic acid vapor. Can you provide information which gives absolute confirmation that such an embedded mite will be killed by oxalic acid vapor?

You made another comment, "If you keep the infection rate low then some varroa in the larvae is of little consequence."

It would seem apparent that varroa are not effectively exterminated by these vapor treatments. The fact that repeated applications of vapor are recommended - even if it is for the purpose of treating bees which have emerged since the previous treatment - would seem to indicate that this is so.
Please do not misunderstand my interest in this subject. I can feel as much empathy with you over varroa infestations as if we had the problem here. I have the very uncomfortable feeling that the varroa problem is so persistent because the treatments which have been discovered, and are being used, are not nearly as complete an answer as we would wish them to be. It is a bit like saying that we are treating the symptoms, rather than the malady.
If we say that "some varroa in the larvae is of little consequence", then we are continually leaving our hives open for re-infection. It is because the problem is real that I would like to encourage the greatest level of cooperation between beekeepers, in being as diligent as possible in using the available treatments, and using them conscientiously, in accordance with the directions for use. In this way greater mitigation of the problem may be achieved while work is undertaken to find a better cure.

If you address a high load of varroa on the bees then there is little to infest the next round.
I didn’t say that Oxalic reached the brood.
You cannot eradicate varroa from a colony just lessen the burden
This last sentence is really important.

 

[bingevader]

If you address a high load of varroa on the bees then there is little to infest the next round.
I didn’t say that Oxalic reached the brood.
You cannot eradicate varroa from a colony just lessen the burden
This last sentence is really important.

And is why we really need to be breeding resistant bees rather than relying on treatment.

 

[Erichalfbee]

And is why we really need to be breeding resistant bees rather than relying on treatment.

Some need some are happy with treating.
That’s the way it is.

 

[seillean mil]

I see where @understanding_bees is coming from; if treatment is to be worthwhile as a trade-off for the damage it might do to the bees, what is really needed is a treatment which attacks the varroa at the point when they enter the cell in preparation for egg-laying. That would be the most reliable, long-term solution. We can but dream.