Accidental beekeeper in Sussex

[jenkinsbrynmair]

only lift if a few millimetres off the floor, any further and your mind will play tricks with you.
Mine does anyway
And I won't mention the voices in my head

 

[pargyle]

Thank you for your explanation regarding number of fingers - makes sense
Luggage scales are on order as I like to be accurate.

A record of weight is a useful tool for overwintering. I have a couple of screw eyes on either side of my stands, hook the luggage scale over the eye, weigh both sides and add them together. After a year or two of hefting though you get to know what you should expect and just use the luggage scales for weighing your honey crop and then after a few more years you get to know what to expect by the number of buckets of honey you fill and the scales become redundant !

 

[Sutty]

With a rotting brood box and maybe super, I'd have a low threshold to leave the queen excluder in if it's very stuck in place.
Can you tell what sort it is? Eg see a wood plastic or metal layer between brood box and super?
Have a roll of duct tape and maybe some plasticine handy to patch up holes if needed.

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

before you get a total meltdown about the QX.
I'll just like to mention that a fellow beekeeper who like in Southern Hampshire has never removed her queen excluders in winter and has never had any issues, so don't go trassing the whole colony if you're not entirely comfortable about messing around with the bees midwinter

 

[Robert Clark]

Update;

Todays objective was to see if the super had any stores and to feed if necessary.

After a few days of low temperatures and heavy frost the temperature overnight had increased to 14 and the bees were active (despite the wind)

I hefted the hive and could easily lift it with two fingers, possibly one.

I remove the super to find a single frame with capped stores in the centre only, all the other frames appeared empty.

I decided to proceed with feeding so removed the super and placed it on the adjacent abandoned hive. (The left one in the pic below)

With the queen excluded removed I placed 6kg of fondant directly on the top of the brood frames and placed an upturned Poly Ashforth Feeder on the top.

The bees appeared a tad grumpy and I got covered in them, however I kept breathing and worked quickly to get them covered up again.

Looking closely at the brood box it seems in better condition than the super so will leave alone until the new hive arrives and I swap it over in the spring.

I placed the super on top of the abandoned hive adjacent so that the bees can salvage any remaining stores.

I strapped up the hive and have called it a day until Thursday when the colony gets its second treatment of ApiBioxal

And breathe ……

 

[Lolly Bee]

Thank you for your explanation regarding number of fingers - makes sense
Luggage scales are on order as I like to be accurate.

Very good luck Robert. It will be interesting to see how you get on. Keeping fingers crossed for you this end!

 

[pargyle]

Actually, those boxes don't look as though they are too bad - I've seen ones in regular use that are in a lot worse state.

It's a bit odd that there are so little stores in there - down here in the South it was a lousy spring but virtually everyone reported a real boom over the summer and there were some good honey crops. Don't panic but it may be a sign of a colony that is not that strong - if they have not been treated for varroa for three years could be varroa - or they could have swarmed one or more times during the summer. Feeding them and treating them is wise.

Is the second hive abandoned completely ? ie: No bees in residence ? If so you need to seal it up and also (if you are going to save the brood frames) treat it for wax moth. Cheapest solution is a sulphur burn - you can use your new brood box on the top to contain the sulphur burner. Thornes sell the burner and discs but you could make your own out of a tin can. The sulphur burn will kill any resident wax moth larvae and eggs .. to be sure a second burn in a couple of weeks is a good precaution.

Those boxes will be useful spares with a bit of fettling ... don't consign them to the bonfire - you will always need more kit than you have !

Well done by the way ... a fairly daunting experience as a first time hive opening. I'd make some plans to replace the folding stand on the RH hive - something a bit more solid would be better even if it just a couple of concrete blocks and a plank or two ..

 

[Robert Clark]

Actually, those boxes don't look as though they are too bad - I've seen ones in regular use that are in a lot worse state.

It's a bit odd that there are so little stores in there - down here in the South it was a lousy spring but virtually everyone reported a real boom over the summer and there were some good honey crops. Don't panic but it may be a sign of a colony that is not that strong - if they have not been treated for varroa for three years could be varroa - or they could have swarmed one or more times during the summer. Feeding them and treating them is wise.

Is the second hive abandoned completely ? ie: No bees in residence ? If so you need to seal it up and also (if you are going to save the brood frames) treat it for wax moth. Cheapest solution is a sulphur burn - you can use your new brood box on the top to contain the sulphur burner. Thornes sell the burner and discs but you could make your own out of a tin can. The sulphur burn will kill any resident wax moth larvae and eggs .. to be sure a second burn in a couple of weeks is a good precaution.

Those boxes will be useful spares with a bit of fettling ... don't consign them to the bonfire - you will always need more kit than you have !

Well done by the way ... a fairly daunting experience as a first time hive opening. I'd make some plans to replace the folding stand on the RH hive - something a bit more solid would be better even if it just a couple of concrete blocks and a plank or two ..

Yes the redundant hive on the left is completely empty except for a few frames. It had an active colony until early this year but it failed.

The main colony was in the process of failing too, however on 15th May I witnessed a swarm of bees move in and captured a pic of it happening.



The original owner came in late summer (possibly September) and took the honey from the remaining colony. So any stores were only built up since then.

I’m planning to swap the bases over and will do this on Thursday when I next fumigate the hive.

Over the winter I plan to relocate the hive to a sunnier position, in 3 foot stages.

Will investigate the sulphur treatment - thanks.

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

Over the winter I plan to relocate the hive to a sunnier position, in 3 foot stages.

if you get a week or so of really cold weather you can do it in one

 

[ericbeaumont]

original owner came in late summer (possibly September) and took the honey from the remaining colony

Ah, and oh, dear.

Time to establish in writing who owns what, because your excellent practical work responding to their abandonment may not equate to ownership of the hives. I suggest that the arrival of the swarm (which are ferae natura) on your land entitles you to ownership of the bees, but they nested in the property of another, yet on your land!

How did you resolve this with the former beekeeper who removed your asset (produced by your asset) from your property?

 

[Robert Clark]

Ah, and oh, dear.

Time to establish in writing who owns what, because your excellent practical work responding to their abandonment may not equate to ownership of the hives. I suggest that the arrival of the swarm (which are ferae natura) on your land entitles you to ownership of the bees, but they nested in the property of another, but on your land!

How did you resolve this with the former beekeeper who removed your asset (produced by your asset) from your property?

No issues with ownership as the original owner confirmed to me in writing that the bees and equipment are now mine.

 

[ericbeaumont]

before you get a total meltdown about the QX ... a fellow beekeeper ... in Southern Hampshire has never removed her queen excluders in winter and has never had any issues

Yes, and by chance I heard similar from Roger Patterson in his Dead Bees Don't Buzz video: he knows a beekeeper who has wintered 40 colonies for 40 years with QXs and never lost one due to the QX.

 

[Robert Clark]

if you get a week or so of really cold weather you can do it in one

That was my original plan and so I moved the hive a few days ago when it was really frosty and cold.
The sudden increase in temperature today brought the colony out of the hive and they headed straight back to their original location.
Thankfully I was able to seal the hive and carefully move them back to their original location, accompanied by a small swarm of residents.

Next time I’ll wait until a prolonged cold snap, when no warm weather is on the forecast

 

[Macbear]

No issues with ownership as the original owner confirmed to me in writing that the bees and equipment are now mine.

That's a very helpful situation. I wish you [and your colony] all the best. You may consider contacting your local Beekeepers Association. Some are better than others, and a good one may have a decent, experienced member who would come out to offer support.
With the empty kit, now is a good time to ready it for 2025 use. If the hive with colony threatens to fall apart having solid options to transfer frames into may be helpful come April onwards [weather permitting]. Also look around for super boxes and frames. A healthy colony will need more than one super once the season gets going. Be aware that on this forum there is plenty of discussion about suppliers in terms of quality, value for money etc.. Second hand kit is more hazardous than buying most "used" things so, at present, don't dive in.

 

[Robert Clark]

That's a very helpful situation. I wish you [and your colony] all the best. You may consider contacting your local Beekeepers Association. Some are better than others, and a good one may have a decent, experienced member who would come out to offer support.
With the empty kit, now is a good time to ready it for 2025 use. If the hive with colony threatens to fall apart having solid options to transfer frames into may be helpful come April onwards [weather permitting]. Also look around for super boxes and frames. A healthy colony will need more than one super once the season gets going. Be aware that on this forum there is plenty of discussion about suppliers in terms of quality, value for money etc.. Second hand kit is more hazardous than buying most "used" things so, at present, don't dive in.

I’ve ordered some poly hives from Abelo in their sale. Two brood boxes and four supers per hive, so I’m hopefully ready for next season

 

[ericbeaumont]

poly hives from Abelo

Standard 11-frame Abelo, I hope. The Abelo 12-frame National is incompatible with the 11-frame and a bit of dog's dinner.

 

[Robert Clark]

Standard 11-frame Abelo, I hope. The Abelo 12-frame National is incompatible with the 11-frame and a bit of dog's dinner.

Yes the standard 11 frame. Same as the Poly Ashforth feeder I got

 

[Penninetrader]

Update;

Todays objective was to see if the super had any stores and to feed if necessary.

After a few days of low temperatures and heavy frost the temperature overnight had increased to 14 and the bees were active (despite the wind)

I hefted the hive and could easily lift it with two fingers, possibly one.

I remove the super to find a single frame with capped stores in the centre only, all the other frames appeared empty.

I decided to proceed with feeding so removed the super and placed it on the adjacent abandoned hive. (The left one in the pic below)

With the queen excluded removed I placed 6kg of fondant directly on the top of the brood frames and placed an upturned Poly Ashforth Feeder on the top.

The bees appeared a tad grumpy and I got covered in them, however I kept breathing and worked quickly to get them covered up again.

Looking closely at the brood box it seems in better condition than the super so will leave alone until the new hive arrives and I swap it over in the spring.

I placed the super on top of the abandoned hive adjacent so that the bees can salvage any remaining stores.

I strapped up the hive and have called it a day until Thursday when the colony gets its second treatment of ApiBioxal

And breathe ……


View attachment 41671

 

[pargyle]

Yes the redundant hive on the left is completely empty except for a few frames. It had an active colony until early this year but it failed.

The main colony was in the process of failing too, however on 15th May I witnessed a swarm of bees move in and captured a pic of it happening.

View attachment 41673

The original owner came in late summer (possibly September) and took the honey from the remaining colony. So any stores were only built up since then.

I’m planning to swap the bases over and will do this on Thursday when I next fumigate the hive.

Over the winter I plan to relocate the hive to a sunnier position, in 3 foot stages.

Will investigate the sulphur treatment - thanks.

That explains the lack of honey in the super - a swarm in May is worth a load of hay - they probably just about filled that super - not much of a beekeeper if he just robbed them and left them to it .. there's a few about I'm afraid. Good luck now, you are learning fast and doing all the right things.

 

[Penninetrader]

You have had plenty of advice here, the only thing I might add is that the time of day to disturb the girls can be crucial to their response, pleasant or grumpy aggressive. I find mid day up until 2.30, especially when the sun is lower in the sky, produces the calmest response