Upcoming weather

[pargyle]

You have missed it!

Oh .... I don't know - thought I saw a storm brewing !

 

[Pete D]

So you whip a few frames out and don't find any brood, then you treat. At what stage does the irritating niggle in the back of your mind get the better of you and you check again to see if you queen less.

Or you whip them out and find brood, then what leave them or treat anyway. If it's the latter then don't pull any frames and just treat anyway, if it's the former then fingers crossed they survive.

I would treat them anyway and like many others did nearly a month ago.

Treating them with a bit of brood just lowers the efficiency, not treating them,.....well that's another subject, probably not covered in this thread about how cold it may or may not get at end of month.

Either way good luck

 

[alldigging]

Could be a recipe for an apiary punch-up, judging by the strongly held and irreconcilable differing views of members of this forum.

Or worse when they agree on the wrong thing.

 

[MuswellMetro]

That's funny I was expecting the weather forecast.

well, the one i have says a relatively warm & dry February

 

[Roola]

well, the one i have says a relatively warm & dry February

I'm fascinated to see the outcome MM!

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

Hi Jenkins,
My comments are as follows:-
1. "seriously I think you are hailing from cuckoo land on this one again"
Offensive language and inaccurate. Sublimation vs trickling never been in that debate.
2. Looking in broodnest at the same time as contemplating OA is "not fiddling around" as you put it, but being a responsible beek in my opinion.
3. "putting oxalic on when there is brood in the hive will just mean that the treatment is less efficacious." If you have followed the debate it is not as simple as that - research submitted by Hivemaker and Stiffy's experience above.
3. As for ripping a cluster apart OA treatment should be done "when it is at least +3C" it says so on the bottle and our bee inspector says +5C. I prefer double figures myself. My bees are flying today +6C. I did not do a full inspection and Richard did his when it was +12C.
Give people some credit.

1. You started bandying about words like 'irresponsible' and i stick by my statement.Anyone whyo recommends poking around the brood at this time of year is highly irresponsible IMHO - as part of a scientific experiment is a totally different thing and shouldn't be confused.
2. It's fiddling around and is the wrong message to send out especially with newbies reading this forum.
3.You are pulling the brood nest apart at its mosty vulnerable time - end of!

 

[beeno]

Hi all respect but surely the important aspect is whether or not they are loaded with varroa? If they have varroa and happen to have brood, this time of year not a lot, in my opinion it is still worth treating to prevent the existing varroa contaminating the brood any further. In this case why check brood? Harmful disturbance aside it seems pointless. Would you not treat a varroa infestation if you saw a patch of brood?

Oxalic isn't temperature dependent to work

Hi Ely,
If they are really loaded it is probably too late anyway and could explain why some colonies die following being chilled with OA i.e. they are already too weak. However, Jimmys Mum was recommended to remove broad to do OA treatment, but decided on alternative treatment. As Hivemaker has demonstrated it is not easy to determine how infested they are through natural mite drop. Also, if you know that they are heavily infested (deformed wing virus) then the brood will be no good anyway as that is their preferred hangout, so you may as well save the remaining bees the trouble of clearing them out! If the hive was in full brood rearing mode then it would be pointless exercise to OA them and if a small patch of brood you might as well remove it!
"Oxalic isn't temperature dependent to work" - best thing about it, but it is winter and if you try to walk in a swarm in summer it can quite easily die.

 

[peteinwilts]

I have been reading this thread and what started as an informative thread by Roola, has been soured by the bizarre beliefs of others.
Roola - please don't stop with the weather forecasts!

It is interesting how things have changed on the forum over the years. In the 'early' days there were gentle reminders that inspections should not be done until it is T-Shirt weather.
Now we are seeing inspections in mid-winter, and promoted by one\two hive owners, who are little more than beginners.

I am sure Finman could reveal more about cooler weather conditions, but in the balmy UK, I am sure there is some brood in strong hives throughout at least most of the year. This should not mean Oxalic has no use.

'maybe' the reason to open up and inspect the hive is to kill the brood, to allow a clean oxalic treatment?!?

In the Falconry world, a new exam has been designed for new falconers, to make sure they understand basic hygiene, basic training and make sure that the owner has at least some common sense....

What I have been reading in this thread today has not been far from cruelty (and possibly crossing the line!), and makes me wonder if the same should apply to beekeeping.

I am sure not even the BBKA would not warrant mid-winter inspections.... I would not think about an inspection before T-shirt weather (which is normally 15°C +!!) .... often, apart from a heft, I leave them a fair bit longer.


One of the necessary skills to become a successful beekeeper is patience...

 

[VEG]

and if you try to walk in a swarm in summer it can quite easily die.

What are you on about ?

 

[Jimmys Mum]

Jimmys Mum was recommended to remove broad to do OA treatment, but decided on alternative treatment.

Hi Beeno,
To be fair, itma suggested that as an option for me back in October when the temperature was still 15/16 degrees. Not in mid winter......

I'd inspect for brood. (It is mild if breezy today.)
If there's not much at all, I'd cull it (not much of a loss) and then treat with Oxalic in a couple of days.
But if there is still a lot of brood (different strains of bees behave differently with the seasons) then I think the DWV level suggests that a pyretheroid treatment might be worth a try. It isn't as temperature dependant as the other products. But it is a roll of the dice as to whether they are resistant. But even after 2 years without, it should still give a good kill.
Meanwhile, I'd say, keep monitoring.

That colony is looking good by the way - Amitraz seems to have really done the job. (concluded from having clear crown boards and looking at inspection board debris)

JM

 

[Ely]

I wasn't really talking about a heavy load, although I would still treat in that case too. If the colony is that far gone with varroa that I thought it may be doomed then oxalic could only help. Nothing to lose. I'm not sure any evidence has been found that relates oxalic use to losses. Too many other variables. That need to be considered. 5ml per seam isn't enough to chill a decent sized colony that maintains their core temp. Especially if applied warm. I tend not to assess mite drop pre oxalic much to some peoples dismay. As you say, how? I go ahead and treat and low n behold mites drop like flies. Infested by intensive autumn foraging

 

[peteinwilts]

5ml per seam isn't enough to chill a decent sized colony that maintains their core temp.

Not sure where I read it, but thought you were meant to warm the Oxalic before use.

Mine gets warmed to 38°C and then popped in flasks.

 

[beeno]

Jenkins,
Things move on. You are asking me to trust people, who never open their colonies from October to end of March beginning of April, that they know what's going on in there? I prefer to set some parameters myself. Well, that's me, but each to their own.

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

Poor bees

 

[peteinwilts]

Jenkins,
Things move on. You are asking me to trust people, who never open their colonies from October to end of March beginning of April, that they know what's going on in there? I prefer to set some parameters myself. Well, that's me, but each to their own.

you should ask yourself why people do not open their hives until march. They are not just being obstinate.

I am at the front of the queue to try new methods, but common sense must prevail.

 

[Ely]

Not sure where I read it, but thought you were meant to warm the Oxalic before use.

Mine gets warmed to 38°C and then popped in flasks.

Yep mine is warm too. Applied straight after mixing with warm water. Not sure if you are 'meant to' but can only help.

 

[itma]

Hi Beeno,
To be fair, itma suggested that as an option for me back in October when the temperature was still 15/16 degrees. Not in mid winter......

... and it was in response to a reported drop of 3 dozen varroa overnight and a couple of dozen DWV bees being seen.
A problem, by all appearances, needing decisive action.

 

[beeno]

Hi Pete,
...."but in the balmy UK, I am sure there is some brood in strong hives throughout at least most of the year".
No offence, but that is your assumption based on what exactly? Six months of the year most beeks on this forum don't even look in the box and if it is at an out apiary they don't spend much time looking outside it either!!!

 

[psafloyd]

Unless we get a cold snap, I'm going to end up buying some MAQs to treat my hives after Easter...

 

[beeno]

... and it was in response to a reported drop of 3 dozen varroa overnight and a couple of dozen DWV bees being seen.
A problem, by all appearances, needing decisive action.

That's what I call lateral thinking!