UK bred Nuc discussion

[Polyanwood]

Thanks for heads up. Were all the entrances at the front?

 

[Poly Hive]

no. Of course not, on three seperate sides and the Crown board had strips to ensure no internal contact. It seemed as if one Q had a stronger presence than the others and pulled the bees to her.

Which is why I am today converting Canadian Poly nucs to National ready for the fun to come.

Lets be honest here if you try to do it on the cheap the risk of failure is that much higher.

PH

 

[BKF Admin]

Hi Admin, sorry but you lost me on that one? Do I need to edit it??

Your post says you can get 2 Nuc boxes from a sheet of 8x4.

 

[Mission]

Your post says you can get 2 Nuc boxes from a sheet of 8x4.

Ah OK, i'll clarify - Yes my design allows you build 2 Nuc boxes, with roof and a crown board from a single 8' X 4' sheet of 12mm ply wood. This gives you an approximate cost of £10 per nuc (excluding frames and foundation etc).

Each box will hold 6 Langstroth frames and is wide enough to house a small plastic contact feeder. They are secure enought to carry a colony through the winter without the need for additional insulation.

Last year I did also build a converter to house the smaller national frames as well. The only problem was it was a little fiddly and the bees built a lot of burr comb below the frame. For this reason I abandoned the idea of conversion from national to Langstroth in favour of shook swarm techniques.

I am happy to put the nuc plans and measurements into a downloadable document for the web site if you like?

 

[BKF Admin]

Yes please Mission that would be great.

Do you have any plans for a National Nuc as well ?

 

[hedgerow pete]

View attachment 645

double nuc anyone

 

[hedgerow pete]

View attachment 646

View attachment 647

View attachment 648if you want wood work lessons try this lot i use 12 x14 nuc boxs personaly myself, if you want i will have a word with the producers at petes bee shed productions ltd and see if i can can your ideas turned to film, ha ha ha

 

[Polyanwood]

Thanks Pete. Did you have the problem with the bees drifting from one nuc to the other with this design?

 

[hedgerow pete]

you can either drill the holes at differant ends or i just put something in the way like a small board or paint the fronts differant colours

 

[mikethebee]

Have a friend that wants to keep me supplied with local queens he has worked dam hard for two years making boxes frames and drawing out the comb.
on the third week of April he was drawing out cells like there’s no tomorrow. 500 queen cells better get that wallet open he says to me!!
Today he has 25 poor mated queens that are not drone layers. But I take my hat off to him he’s not giving up.
ALL THE BEST MIKE

 

[hedgerow pete]

i am setting up two sets of ten hives in two out apiaries with a breeding program as well to replace the queens. i have as a breeding centre have the bee shed with 8 hives 6 of which will by the nuc suppliers, i have so far made at work 6 nucs with another 14 to go they take me around 30 mins to knock up, we are not talking any quality timber or ply so i ant going to competing with hivemaker . but i will be having great fun breeding queens again

 

[Mission]

Have a friend that wants to keep me supplied with local queens he has worked dam hard for two years making boxes frames and drawing out the comb.
on the third week of April he was drawing out cells like there’s no tomorrow. 500 queen cells better get that wallet open he says to me!!
Today he has 25 poor mated queens that are not drone layers. But I take my hat off to him he’s not giving up.
ALL THE BEST MIKE

That's a real shame Mike but it just shows you should never count your chickens before they have hatched. The problem as we all know is not the production of queens, but the mating. A.I it would appear will be the way forwards. I know its expensive to get the kit, but it is something I am very interested in. You have total control over the drone selection and can also go along way to ensuring the weather doesn't play a part in the problem. Thoughts or opinions anyone??

Admin, sorry I don't have any plans for National nucs. Only Langstroth which I have designed and built for my own use. I will get it into a PDF after my exams this week.

 

[hedgerow pete]

if you are like me with poor eyes and big hands stuff the micro scopes and things , iam off to buy a massive shed and they can breed all they want inside it, but at the moment i cant get a six story shed on the allotment the carrots are in the way

 

[gavin]

Personally I failed with three nucs in a brood box.

The end result was the two times I tried it that one nuc picked up all the bees from the other two even if all three mated successfully.

Just a heads up.

PH

I've done this three times and not had that problem except when a queen failed, then they drifted away from that nuc.

When did the bees drift - soon after the Q came into lay? You can easily adjust any imbalance with a frame of brood if you need to.

G.

 

[Poly Hive]

No idea now Gavin, this was many years ago.

AI? This is a totally different ball game Mission and it is not by any means a doddle. There are many many complications and I for one would not contemplate it.

First of all you need to have a proper breeding plan.

More AI Queens have a nasty habit of superceeding very early.

If anyone is really serious about going forward in this line then the place to go is Marburg to do the AI course and get the certificate which I believe would allow you to work pretty much anywhere.

For nuts and bolt beekeeping AI is not for the likes of me.

PH

 

[Norton]

More AI Queens have a nasty habit of superceeding very early

Hello,
I do not agree with this. If the AI is done properly there is no reason why the AI queens should be superseded early. They can be used in production hives performing as well and live just as long as naturally mated queens. AI is a very useful tool available to beekeepers and enables one to make rapid progress to take the breeding program in the desired direction and if used with a reliable mating station the results can be superb.
Best regards
Norton.

 

[Crg]

More AI Queens have a nasty habit of superceeding very early.

This is typical http://www.honeybee.breeding.com/HBIS/pdf/IIvsNM.pdf of papers I've read reviewing II verses naturally mated.

Have I missed some study showing II queens have a nasty habit of superseding very early? If so I'd love to read it.

 

[Poly Hive]

Lets compare eggs with eggs please and not bananas.

Susan Cobey is a word renowned bee scientist. She is no doubt an expert or employs expert inseminators.

I was referring to what happens when amateurs turn to the method. Why they should want to really beats me as very few have the genetic resources to make it worth while.

AI is best left to those who are doing serious line breeding and for us the small scale users rely on Mother Nature to do the business.

No doubt there are the odd dedicated amateurs who have great success, but they are but a handfull if they even exist.

PH

 

[DulwichGnome]

I've come across the term 'banking queens' were they are kept in cages in the top of BB's. Can this be done with both virgin and mated queens and for how long? Is it the colony that rejects them or is it the queen that gives up?

Thanks.

Mike.

 

[Crg]

Lets compare eggs with eggs please and not bananas.

Actually we are comparing II to II, so Susan Cobey compared to amateurs, is really like comparing professional egg producer to a backyard egg producer.

I was referring to what happens when amateurs turn to the method. Why they should want to really beats me as very few have the genetic resources to make it worth while.

For breeding yes, but that is also true of most small scale users relying on "Mother Nature" to breed new queens.

AI is best left to those who are doing serious line breeding and for us the small scale users rely on Mother Nature to do the business.

"Mother Nature" and II are complementary methods, used together to breed queens.

Small scale beekeepers using "Mother Nature" have very little hope in breeding with any great success IMO. I hope I'm wrong, but that opinion is based on my experience of talking to many hobby beekeepers who seem to ignore every lesson we have learnt about how "Mother Nature" works over the last centuries.

If you are seriously wanting to breed queens so people don't import, you're going to have to think and research about how you will breed high quality queens. People won't buy them otherwise, they'll continue to import, and II is one of the tools which can help you to achieve that goal.