UK bred Nuc discussion

[VEG]

See this is where I get confused. The two suggested ways above is basically doing an AS. This I know how to do but that isnt really queen rearing is it?
I see that as swarm controll. What I would like is a simplified (in reading terms) of rearing queens.

 

[jon]

This I know how to do but that isnt really queen rearing is it?

Not according to the Jedi warriors of the black arts whose methods are really more appropriate for large commercial operations or local BKAs supplying members.

For small scale amateur beekeepers, this is one way to progress as you select each year for the type of bee you want.

Veg.
How many queens do you want? If it is only half a dozen there is no need to complicate life. These will be totally naturally produced queens produced in a colony bunged with young bees well capable of producing a lot of Royal jelly.

This time last year I had a 3 colonies and a nuc.
At the moment I have 8 full strength colonies with supers on and 5 nucs on the go although the queens are not mated yet so that is counting chickens.

 

[VEG]

Jon i am not having a go as I said I have never done this before and I think I am not alone in being confused over how its done. Can I ask how you would do it if you didnt have queen cells in your hives.
I have 2 nucs at the moment and a queenless hive (story on another thread). I would like to get up to about 6 hives eventually.

 

[Haughton Honey]

Not sure that I get PH's 'swarminess' point - bees swarm if there is no preventative measure taken by the keeper - it's their natural way of reproducing - why's it a bad thing if it can be controlled and harnessed to create new colonies?

 

[jon]

Can I ask how you would do it if you didnt have queen cells in your hives.

Take off the supers and cramp them for space. They will soon start to make queen cells.

I just wait until they produce them naturally.

PS. I know you were not having a go.

 

[VEG]

I have yet to have enough bees to fill a brood.

 

[gavin]

Not sure that I get PH's 'swarminess' point - bees swarm if there is no preventative measure taken by the keeper - it's their natural way of reproducing - why's it a bad thing if it can be controlled and harnessed to create new colonies?

It is just that some strains - and some colonies - are more swarmy than others. All bees will try to do so when cramped and/or when the queen is at a certain age, but some will do it too often. Breed from these ones alone and you may be dealing with swarming colonies all the time, whilst other beekeeper's colonies are getting on with stashing honey. I think that I'm right in saying that Carnolians do tend to be swarmy.

all the best

G.

 

[jon]

I have yet to have enough bees to fill a brood.

Then it is a case of patience, dear boy!

As PH said above, this is easier if you have more colonies.

 

[Poly Hive]

I am pondering on how to proceed here. I can give you the classic method of cell starting but that DOES require a few hives to play with.

There is another method and I have pulled the book from my library and the dilemma is are the diagrams in there copyright? I could I suppose just sketch them and scan them and claim its all my idea...

Suggestions?

Further it is not a method I have tried myself but I suppose I could soon and see what the results are.

PH

 

[VEG]

I will pm you my e-mail

 

[VEG]

I would like to be in the position of knowing how to do it before i need to do it if you get what i mean.

 

[Poly Hive]

yess but that does not help the thread hmm?

PH

 

[jon]

Ther is also the Ben Harden method which I personally have not tried but again I think there are easier ways if you just want a couple of extra queens.

(May not be suitable for all races of bee and all locations)

 

[Poly Hive]

Best forgotten about. I did try it and it failed and apart from the NBU who claim success with it I don't know anyone who has succeeded with it.

PH

 

[Mission]

I asked Roger Patterson to recommend me a good book to give me a solid background in rearing good quality queens that I could use to selectively breed rock solid queens.

He advised me the following:

Breeding Techniques and Selection for Breeding of the Honeybee by Freidrich Ruttner. Available from the BIBBA web site.

http://apple.clickandbuild.com/cnb/...=catalogue-product_info-null&prodCategoryID=1

I have used it as my bible and I will be using it next season to produce a higher quantity of queens.

If you need to buy equipment then I am happy to recommend this site where I buy all my queen rearing kit from.

http://www.buzzybeeshop.co.uk - Mark is a forum member and thoroughly decent chap.

Those two links give you a fantstic start in rearing your own queens and starting your own nucs. Get involved now and you could be selling your first overwintered nucs by next April.

Right I really need to get revising now...................

 

[MJBee]

What a great thread - 55 posts in less than 4 hours
My first attempt at queen rearing was not a total success but not a total failure either. I certainly intend having another try with the aim of requeening some dubious colonies and a late summer try to populate 4 nucs to over-winter.
As other posters have said queen rearing in not rocket science but there are a number of basic rules - Poly Hive has posted them in the queen rearing section and has forgotten more about queen rearing than most of us will ever know.
Regards Mike

 

[Poly Hive]

Hmm, not too sure about what I have forgotten.

The essential problem is this.

Numbers. lack of.

The vast majority of folks have one or two hives and that strength is not enough for the usual method.

I will post another way forward, untried mind you so between us we could trial it?

PH

 

[planbee]

Having read this thread so far, and it's an excellent read, may I say, I went off to look at articles on artificial swarming and making nuclei.

I found an article written by someone in the Netherlands, and he say's, "A strong colony with 16 -18 frames covered with brood and bees may be divided into several nuclei."

Fine, that sounds OK to me, except, what hives have 16 to 18 frames - at least?

Anybody know what hives they use in Holland?

John

 

[gavin]

Don't know what hives the Dutch use but a colony I made nucs from last weekend had 23 frames with brood on each one. It was strong early on so I gave it a second brood box (one with slightly more space than the other, hence 11+12 frames).

G.

 

[jimbeekeeper]

Fine, that sounds OK to me, except, what hives have 16 to 18 frames - at least?

Anybody know what hives they use in Holland?

John

A national on double brood = 22 frames

A national on tripple brood = 33 frames

If you have a strong queen this is possible.