Treatment Free

[Hivemaker.]

please elaborate on what you have seen on a sticky insert that scares you.

Pollen mites are pretty scary, especially if you were to come face to face with one the size of a cow.

 

[Beefriendly]

You big scaredy cat...they are vegetarian....so even if scaled up in size wouldn't be interested in eating you....

 

[Hivemaker.]

they are vegetarian

... but...they may think we're vegetables.

 

[Beefriendly]

..they may be right!...see our BINO thread for prime examples

 

[B+.]

I know of quite a few feral colonies here and saw quite a few out in Africa. Only one is in a tree which you could say imitated an OMF ( entrance hole up high, bottom of the tree completely rotted out and open down to ground level so you can look up and see the comb - at one of my apiaries funnily enough) all the others have what amounts to a solid floor.

Obviously something solid will be below the comb at some point (even if it's the ground). I think people are focusing too much on the "solid" floor and missing the point: Pests and debris fall from the cluster. If the floor is so close to the bottom of the cluster that they can simply climb back up, it offers no benefit to the colony. An OMF allows debris to fall through.

 

[Finman]

.... missing the point: Pests and debris fall from the cluster. If the floor is so close to the bottom of the cluster that they can simply climb back up, it offers no benefit to the colony. An OMF allows debris to fall through.

It depends if you believe that story. Nothing is climping back. Never seen those climpers.

 

[Curly green fingers]

Some of my stash and these are 'man size' 50lbs buckets with a few rows of 70 pounders. My main harvest now comes from trees during the spring flow- rest of the season is spent rearing queens and managing nucs.
View attachment 16207

If I'd of left them shoes/slipper's there I would be sleeping in the bee shed .

 

[Eyeman]

Obviously something solid will be below the comb at some point (even if it's the ground). I think people are focusing too much on the "solid" floor and missing the point: Pests and debris fall from the cluster. If the floor is so close to the bottom of the cluster that they can simply climb back up, it offers no benefit to the colony. An OMF allows debris to fall through.

What about the recyclable products that are now out-of-reach. Pollen and wax come to mind

 

[Murox]

Simple observation shows bees always have stores above the brood...or at worst in an arc around the top of them brood. Supers above is following the bees own instincts.

Yes agreed, BUT naturally bees build down - so they utilise the comb for brood, then they build new comb below, and then then fill up the recently vacated brood cells above with stores and build down. Logically nadiring makes more sense you would always have new comb for brood, honey would be in older comb on top and easy to rotate out-no need for older cruddy comb.
My guess is that its just easier for people to organise things rather than follows the bees lead - anyone ??

 

[Hivemaker.]

My guess is that its just easier for people to organise things rather than follows the bees lead - anyone ??

https://www.perfectbee.com/your-bee...essories/a-detailed-look-at-the-warre-beehive

 

[Finman]

Yes agreed, BUT naturally bees build down - so they utilise the comb for brood, then they build new comb below, and then then fill up the recently vacated brood cells above with stores and build down. Logically nadiring makes more sense you would always have new comb for brood, honey would be in older comb on top and easy to rotate out-no need for older cruddy comb.
My guess is that its just easier for people to organise things rather than follows the bees lead - anyone ??

Nothing new to invent in this issue. Another thing is what you do, and how bees react on that.

When combs are full of honey, extract them.
.

 

[Murox]

https://www.perfectbee.com/your-bee...essories/a-detailed-look-at-the-warre-beehive

Link was a helpful to reminder. Every system has its pros and cons and many have been invented and tried; and then there are geographic preferences historically for one or another system or hive type. – If I leave to one side the more natural, holistic ideology and back to nature elements Warre's principle does not seem so very different. Both conventional and Warre boxes can be separated and re-stacked (true Warre boxes would be lighter of course being smaller) and both hives have to be dismantled to perform other tasks.

The addition of a new box above is quicker/easier for the keeper and exploits the bees dislike of space above, so they fill it. (speed and ease being a major benefit for the bee farmer). Are there other reasons for supering rather than nadiring ?

 

[drex]

I run mainly Nationals but also have a Warre and horizontal top bar hive. The bees don't seem to care what sort of box they are in as long as it is dry and draft proof.
With nadiring as the brood hatches the bees move down and fill the recently vacated comb with honey. Some folks do not like to extract from comb that has contained brood.
Depending on situation I will sometimes nadir a National, but usually bung new boxes on the top

 

[Murox]

I run mainly Nationals but also have a Warre and horizontal top bar hive. The bees don't seem to care what sort of box they are in as long as it is dry and draft proof.
With nadiring as the brood hatches the bees move down and fill the recently vacated comb with honey. Some folks do not like to extract from comb that has contained brood.
Depending on situation I will sometimes nadir a National, but usually bung new boxes on the top

A more fluid approach which makes perfect sense.
I had not thought about folk not wanting to extract from comb that had contained brood, although personally I cannot see why not.

 

[Finman]

. Some folks do not like to extract from comb that has contained brood.

That makes hive nursing very difficult. It is their own reason. Some are ready to destroy combs and brood that they get new combs. At same time they destroy the yield. People have odd habits and they keep them.

 

[Finman]

Are there other reasons for supering rather than nadiring ?

They are not alternatives.

If you give room for more brood, put down, and if you give more room for honey, put room up.

The rest reasons invent yourself.

If you do not add room in time, swarming fever will appear soon.

Colony grows. That is first reason to add boxes, even if there is honey in boxes not at all.
.

If you put bees to move their stores from place to place, bees spent lots of energy for nothing. If wrong frame is half full of honey, lift the frame to super. And often double brood has 5 brood frames honey.
Outermost frames have often dandelion honey, and if you do not extract them, honey crystallized during summer.
.

 

[charentejohn]

Hi all, just started re-using this forum and wondered if there were any TF sections. Found this thread and think this may be of interest. He has a direct style but is, reading his history, what the OP asked for. His FB page is here Log into Facebook | Facebook Favourite video is Mite Bombs one.
His first video, as he says be kind as not perfect, gives his background

For those who want to go commercial TF he is a good basis for thought ? Basically he has been TF from the start but he isn't a 'bee hugger' like myself
His approach is to start with lots of hives, he has some trick to making multiple splits from splits which I don't do but may interest others. So he ends up with a commercial hive operation which is TF. If hives die he just replaces them with splits from those that didn't die out.
Principle seems to be that, never mind the debate on hygenic bees or resistant bees he just uses 'tough' bees. I think this is what some scientists tried on an island only they were much woolier about it. They planned and prepared etc. as opposed to just doing it.

Anyway check out his videos and links. I am more 2x Warres TF as I can do mite counts and not tricky to manage two hives. He shows how commericial keepers can do it with hundreds.

 

[Erichalfbee]

Hi all, just started re-using this forum and wondered if there were any TF sections. Found this thread and think this may be of interest. He has a direct style but is, reading his history, what the OP asked for. His FB page is here Log into Facebook | Facebook Favourite video is Mite Bombs one.
His first video, as he says be kind as not perfect, gives his background

For those who want to go commercial TF he is a good basis for thought ? Basically he has been TF from the start but he isn't a 'bee hugger' like myself
His approach is to start with lots of hives, he has some trick to making multiple splits from splits which I don't do but may interest others. So he ends up with a commercial hive operation which is TF. If hives die he just replaces them with splits from those that didn't die out.
Principle seems to be that, never mind the debate on hygenic bees or resistant bees he just uses 'tough' bees. I think this is what some scientists tried on an island only they were much woolier about it. They planned and prepared etc. as opposed to just doing it.

Anyway check out his videos and links. I am more 2x Warres TF as I can do mite counts and not tricky to manage two hives. He shows how commericial keepers can do it with hundreds.

Very controversial as you know. I’ll enquire about possibly setting one up.

 

[pargyle]

Very controversial as you know. I’ll enquire about possibly setting one up.

No .. probably best to keep us treatment free beekeepers in the closet ...we only get molested when we come out !!

 

[charentejohn]

Sadly true but things are improving, as they say the drugs don't work they just make it worse If someone came up with a treatment that didn't harm the bees as well I would use it when needed but haven't found one.
Worth looking at Scot's videos as he keeps saying we have to talk about it, he pointed out that a lot of new people are put off joining clubs or groups because they can't say the TF word. He mentions that new keeper's hives can die out because they have no person (mentor) to help as they don't like TF. Sadly true as beginners (like myself) can use help with problems in general. More mixed clubs would be nice, but unlikely.