Treatment Free

[beebopper]

I last treated in the 90's.

Interesting - what is your average honey crop (per hive)?

 

[Beefriendly]

Remember B+ is part of a pan European VSH Carniolan bee breeding program, using II to control the crosses....IIRC he averages around 200lbs per hive, about the same as a decent Buckfast queen. Alas his Queens are not commercially available.

 

[For want of a better word]

Remember B+ is part of a pan European VSH Carniolan bee breeding program, using II to control the crosses....IIRC he averages around 200lbs per hive, about the same as a decent Buckfast queen. Alas his Queens are not commercially available.

https://www.-------------/news/2018-honey-harvest-is-third-bigger-than-last-years

URL blocked... google 2018 Honey crop UK... BBKA site!!!

Meanwhile to the real world....

The rest of the UK Beekeepers are either crap beekeepers, have crap bees or have crap forage or all three..... BBKA for 2018 honey survey quote 30lb per colony average!


Must get some of those rose tinted spectacles.. I wonder if Specsavers keep them if stock?

Yeghes da

 

[beebopper]

Remember B+ is part of a pan European VSH Carniolan bee breeding program, using II to control the crosses....IIRC he averages around 200lbs per hive, about the same as a decent Buckfast queen. Alas his Queens are not commercially available.

So there is real progress there. Surely they will become available at some point? Is there a similar programme for buckfast or AMM.

 

[foghornleghorn]

I last treated in the 90's.
However, I don't derive all of my income from beekeeping.

Do your test queens start with 0 varroa to equalise things?

 

[beebopper]

https://www.-------------/news/2018-honey-harvest-is-third-bigger-than-last-years

URL blocked... google 2018 Honey crop UK... BBKA site!!!

Meanwhile to the real world....

The rest of the UK Beekeepers are either crap beekeepers, have crap bees or have crap forage or all three..... BBKA for 2018 honey survey quote 30lb per colony average!


Must get some of those rose tinted spectacles.. I wonder if Specsavers keep them if stock?

Yeghes da

So you are saying its untrue - are they fibbing then?
My heads starting to hurt - time for a beer.

 

[Eyeman]

So you are saying its untrue - are they fibbing then?
My heads starting to hurt - time for a beer.

Yes that estimate of 30lbs per colony from the BBKA survey must be an exaggeration. Beekeepers are second only to fishermen when it comes to the size of their bounty!

 

[Stiffy]

So you are saying its untrue - are they fibbing then?
My heads starting to hurt - time for a beer.

I have spoken to local beekeepers recently who have been telling me they had little or no honey this year, if mine only produced 30lb and remember that is only one super for goodness sake, I would be looking for an answer!

2018 my hives produced an average of 70lb a hive, although I am yet to calculate but this year they probably doubled if not trebled that figure.

IMHO having any old mongrel bee is like having an old mutt, yep it’s a dog but it couldn’t run like a greyhound or round up sheep like a collie.

Good quality queen bees are worth the minimal amount of money they cost and if kept well, will repay many many times.
S

 

[Beefriendly]

The rest of the UK Beekeepers are either crap beekeepers, have crap bees or have crap forage or all three.....

For once you may be right.
As a man who claims he cannot keep Carniolans or Buckfast bees alive through a mild Cornish winters I suggest you look to the first point more closely.

 

[foghornleghorn]

I have spoken to local beekeepers recently who have been telling me they had little or no honey this year, if mine only produced 30lb and remember that is only one super for goodness sake, I would be looking for an answer!

2018 my hives produced an average of 70lb a hive, although I am yet to calculate but this year they probably doubled if not trebled that figure.

IMHO having any old mongrel bee is like having an old mutt, yep it’s a dog but it couldn’t run like a greyhound or round up sheep like a collie.

Good quality queen bees are worth the minimal amount of money they cost and if kept well, will repay many many times.
S

A 30lb average would have a good few with 2 or 3 supers. It's not really that bad if it's a real average and not an average of "production hives" or other nonsense average

 

[fatshark]

... To enlarge on that...I have heard people claim to be treatment free (a couple of them are very good customers of mines for packages and nucs). ...

Interesting ... are these very good customers:

a) expanding year on year
b) replacing huge losses
c) selling on as a 'treatment free' supplier

The question is rhetorical. I don't expect an answer

 

[B+.]

Do your test queens start with 0 varroa to equalise things?

No. There will always be some residual mite population. What we want is bees that can survive (and perform well) despite some level of infestation. Obviously, the colonies that manage the infestation without treatment are more desirable.

The tests (natural mite drop in Spring and Soapy water wash in summer) establish the growth in phoretic mites. The pin killed brood test establishes the hygienic behavior. Essentially, measuring the colonies ability to manage it's varroa population in a given location. Of course, this information by itself is of little value, but, when it is combined with the information from the colonies of all related queens, a "breeding value" can be calculated which measures the genetic value for a particular trait (e.g. varroa). This is standardised so that numbers above 100% are above the 5-year moving average and each 10% improvement is 1 deviation. Obviously, the higher the number, the better stock is, but I would look for at least 120% (2 deviations above the mean) before considering it worth breeding from.

 

[beebopper]

For once you may be right.
As a man who claims he cannot keep Carniolans or Buckfast bees alive through a mild Cornish winters I suggest you look to the first point more closely.

You are naughty.

 

[beebopper]

No. There will always be some residual mite population. What we want is bees that can survive (and perform well) despite some level of infestation. Obviously, the colonies that manage the infestation without treatment are more desirable.

The tests (natural mite drop in Spring and Soapy water wash in summer) establish the growth in phoretic mites. The pin killed brood test establishes the hygienic behavior. Essentially, measuring the colonies ability to manage it's varroa population in a given location. Of course, this information by itself is of little value, but, when it is combined with the information from the colonies of all related queens, a "breeding value" can be calculated which measures the genetic value for a particular trait (e.g. varroa). This is standardised so that numbers above 100% are above the 5-year moving average and each 10% improvement is 1 deviation. Obviously, the higher the number, the better stock is, but I would look for at least 120% (2 deviations above the mean) before considering it worth breeding from.

Is what you are doing similar to what Ratniek is doing at the Uni of Sussex?

 

[Beefriendly]

So you are saying its untrue - are they fibbing then?
.

No need to fib...below is a picture of about half of my summer yield approx 30lbs per bucket. I've already sold 1000 lb's of summer honey at wholesale prices just to make some room. There is approx the same amount again in my honey room which is my spring and heather and borage harvest. I'll leave you to work out how much there was/is. I started with 12 production hives in spring, that rose to 16 production in summer as last winters Nuc's came on line. This also includes one production hive that for reasons best known only to itself yielded a paltry single super over the entire season....and that was only after re-queening . I don't count this years nucs that are now in hives.

I'm also a migratory beekeeper so my yields will be much higher than many static beekeepers. I could also add that my spring, borage and heather honey harvest where all down on previous years...but hell the summer yield was incredible!

 

[B+.]

Is what you are doing similar to what Ratniek is doing at the Uni of Sussex?

I don't have a very high opinion of what Prof Ratniek is doing. He allows twice the permitted time: 48 hours instead of the standard 24 hours (http://www.coloss.org/standard-methods-for-rearing-and-selection-of-apis-mellifera-queens/#3.3.4.2.) after administering liquid nitrogen before assessing the clearance rate. This artificially inflates the hygiene percentage so is not comparable with other researchers.
To put this in perspective, my bees are assessed after 8 hours (http://www.coloss.org/standard-methods-for-rearing-and-selection-of-apis-mellifera-queens/#3.3.4.3.)

 

[B+.]

No need to fib...below is a picture of about half of my summer yield approx 30lbs per bucket.

You'd better hope that lot doesn't leak!

 

[Beefriendly]

You'd better hope that lot doesn't leak!

Its the strain on the floorboards I worry about more

 

[Swarm]

I have spoken to local beekeepers recently who have been telling me they had little or no honey this year, if mine only produced 30lb and remember that is only one super for goodness sake, I would be looking for an answer!

2018 my hives produced an average of 70lb a hive, although I am yet to calculate but this year they probably doubled if not trebled that figure.

IMHO having any old mongrel bee is like having an old mutt, yep it’s a dog but it couldn’t run like a greyhound or round up sheep like a collie.

Good quality queen bees are worth the minimal amount of money they cost and if kept well, will repay many many times.
S

What kind of 'any old mongrel'? I've never had less than two supers off any 'mongrel' colony and that includes 2013, one of the worst years I've known. this year even splits in May produced two or three supers, with the rest Amm and locals filling from four to seven.
I don't do markets as I just don't have the time and I'm looking at a stack of honey buckets. With a year like this one, if people are telling you they made little or no honey, maybe the bees are not the problem?

But back on topic, I think treating your bees is the responsible thing to do.

 

[Stiffy]

What kind of 'any old mongrel'? I've never had less than two supers off any 'mongrel' colony and that includes 2013, one of the worst years I've known. this year even splits in May produced two or three supers, with the rest Amm and locals filling from four to seven.
I don't do markets as I just don't have the time and I'm looking at a stack of honey buckets. With a year like this one, if people are telling you they made little or no honey, maybe the bees are not the problem?

But back on topic, I think treating your bees is the responsible thing to do.

Maybe the bees are not the problem but with the fantastic year we have just had, something is very wrong!
S