Treatment Free

[fatshark]

You can read his paper here:

https://journals.plos.org/plosone/article?id=10.1371/journal.pone.0150362

My observation would be these bees aren't managed. I'm not sure how long the combination of traits that enable them to thrive would survive even the most basic of beekeeping practices - i.e. putting them in a yard with other hives.

The Arnot Forest bees tolerate Varroa by behavioural changes - very small colonies, very frequent swarming, frequent brood breaks etc.

Unlikely to be of any practical value for beekeeping for honey production.

I seem to remember Seeley also established them in standard apiaries (closely spaced hives cf. those hundreds of yards apart as in the forest) and they didn't survive well.

I can't find this paper at the moment ...

 

[mbc]

The Arnot Forest bees tolerate Varroa by behavioural changes - very small colonies, very frequent swarming, frequent brood breaks etc.

Unlikely to be of any practical value for beekeeping for honey production.

I seem to remember Seeley also established them in standard apiaries (closely spaced hives cf. those hundreds of yards apart as in the forest) and they didn't survive well.

I can't find this paper at the moment ...

Also those bees were few and far between iirc

 

[Jonathan]

Seems to me that anybody who relies solely on bees for an income would be totally potty to even attempt treatment free beekeeping. Will only ever end in tears in my opinion.

 

[Millet]

Seems to me that anybody who relies solely on bees for an income would be totally potty to even attempt treatment free beekeeping. Will only ever end in tears in my opinion.

100%..

 

[domino]

Seems to me that anybody who relies solely on bees for an income would be totally potty to even attempt treatment free beekeeping. Will only ever end in tears in my opinion.

People who run courses on TF beekeeping do well.

 

[B+.]

Seems to me that anybody who relies solely on bees for an income would be totally potty to even attempt treatment free beekeeping. Will only ever end in tears in my opinion.

That depends on what your stock is like.

 

[Hivemaker.]

Having to get a crop/income in order to feed yourself (and your family if you have one) changes the dynamics.

It certainly does...and more so if you pay the full time wages for a few others to work for you.

99% of the income here is from bulk honey sales... and the other 1% from other beefarming related sales.

edit...And to answer the OP... of the other commercial beekeepers/beefarmers I know of in the same position (not many of them)... none are treatment free.

 

[beebopper]

You can read his paper here:

https://journals.plos.org/plosone/article?id=10.1371/journal.pone.0150362

My observation would be these bees aren't managed. I'm not sure how long the combination of traits that enable them to thrive would survive even the most basic of beekeeping practices - i.e. putting them in a yard with other hives.

That was one of the issues he points out - hive density and therefore cross contamination. Interesting none the less but agree the transfer to commercial setting is questionable.

Also interesting that some of our feral colonies could also be surviving which I have always been told is due to repopulation of the same site by new swarms and that there are no feral colonies.

 

[beebopper]

Which is why the OP specified 'Commercial' rather than bee farmer, it is a fine distinction, there are quite a few bee farmers who are but bee dabblers, some who have a fair number of hives, make a moderate income from it but it is not their sole source of income, then those who see it as their main source of income.
Same as general agriculture really - there are those who keep a few rescue hens and goats in their over large gardens, have a holding number therefore could be classed as 'farmers' those who work hard in their smallholdings but still have to have another job to make ends meet or treat it as a hobby then the larger 'commercial' affairs.
With beekeeping, the dabblers and the smaller scale farmers (or large scale hobbyists) can afford to experiment with treatment free etc as it's not the end of the world if it all goes Pete Tong.

So are there non-commercial beefarmers? Are there commercial beekeepers that are not beefarmers?

Semantics - read all the words and it makes sense.

 

[beebopper]

Unlikely to be of any practical value for beekeeping for honey production.

...

Agree but is at least proof of principle that it is possible to keep some bees treatment free.
Would it give a good crop is the question - I guess not, but maybe if you are an optimist.

 

[Poly Hive]

I kept a beetree in the east mids under fairly close observation for some 10 years and it seemed to be continuous. Very black bees too. The farm has been turned into an industrial estate (how the hell are we to feed ourselves at this rate?) but I believe the tree was to remain untouched. Being now some 350 miles away I can't check obviously.

PH

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

So are there non-commercial beefarmers?

Plenty

 

[Anduril]

Agree but is at least proof of principle that it is possible to keep some bees treatment free.
Would it give a good crop is the question - I guess not, but maybe if you are an optimist.

You could Google, Mel Disselkoen on YouTube and his website, a US beekeeper.

 

[SDM]

That depends on what your stock is like.

Well, not using stock derived from 'Darwinian beekeeping" if the characteristics seen in isolated feral populations are typical.

 

[Finman]

Agree but is at least proof of principle that it is possible to keep some bees treatment free. .

You will loose those "some" hives very quickly and mites will drift to treated hives. Hives will have same genepool, and no genetic selection will happen.

 

[Finman]

.
In Swedish island Gotland beekeepers have evolution project. In the year 1999 they moved to the Gotland 150 hives, which should be basis of resistant bees. After 4 years only 5% out of hives were alive.

Now there are about 30 colonies. They are very tiny. Normal winter cluster is 3 frames. It is same as with Russian bee in USA.

Bees have been in the isle 20 years. Not much have happened if we hope that we could sell honey from hives.

 

[Beefriendly]

Agree but is at least proof of principle that it is possible to keep some bees treatment free. .

This has been known for years.
The Avignon feral bees demonstrated an interesting point (1997?). They hived these feral bees in an apiary for several generations. Those they treated for varroa brought in nearly 3x as much honey as the untreated.

 

[Into the lions den]

The only person I know of fit to answer that question is ITLD. Who is away at the moment AFIK.

PH

LOL...thanks a bunch Pete.

The answer is that I don't know. To enlarge on that...I have heard people claim to be treatment free (a couple of them are very good customers of mines for packages and nucs). We don't claim to be treatment free in any shape or form ourselves (that way to the bankruptcy court) but the packages we supply, whilst not treatment free, are at least organic.

However, and not talking UK only here, some of those claim treatment free status are fibbers to gain market advantage. A false screen to pretend their honey is purer than beekeeper X's honey.

The rationalise it in some interesting ways........the substance added is 'natural'......................or yes, we are treatment free ..... for 364 days a year (or things like that) .

Some probably ARE genuinely treatment free, but unless you are in an area not attractive for beekeeping you are likely to have bees around you, and serious issues maintaining the status for long.

 

[B+.]

Some probably ARE genuinely treatment free, but unless you are in an area not attractive for beekeeping you are likely to have bees around you, and serious issues maintaining the status for long.

I last treated in the 90's.
However, I don't derive all of my income from beekeeping.

 

[beebopper]

This has been known for years.

Not by me it wasn't. Thank for extra info.