Top Dollar

[ericbeaumont]

the law probably has a legal definition of the word raw

No, it doesn't, which is why the word can mean anything.

This excerpt from the December 2018 Essex BKA magazine includes the view of Rob Blacklock, Chartered Trading Standards Practitioner, North Yorkshire County Council Trading Standards:

Raw Honey was discussed at a Trading Standards National level in 2017 and is certainly likely to infringe the Food Information for Consumers Regulations (EC 1169/2011). I say likely, as only the courts can decide on the interpretation of the law. The labelling of honey is controlled by the Honey (England) Regulations 2015, including the equivalent legislation in the devolved areas, as well as the EU Food Information for Consumers Regulations 1169/2011 (FIC) and the Food Information Regulations 2014 (FIR).

The term “raw” is not in the list of specified Honey Products or reserved descriptions in the Honey Regulations 2015 and therefore is a term covered by the requirements of the FIC / FIR. The term raw when applied to the name of the food, honey, then becomes misleading - contrary to Article 7 (1) c of Regulation (EU) 1169/2011, as it suggests that this food possesses special characteristics, when all of this type of food have the same characteristics, which are laid down in Schedule 1 of the Honey Regulations 2015.

Article 7 of EU Regulation 1169/2011 reads - Fair information practices 1 Food information shall not be misleading, particularly:… (c) by suggesting that the food possesses special characteristics when in fact all similar foods possess such characteristics, in particular by specifically emphasising the presence or absence of certain ingredients and/or nutrients.

The letter concluded with the following note: Food businesses should be advised not to use the descriptor “raw” when giving food information about honey. The remedy for this breach of Article 7(1) (c) is the service of an improvement notice on the Food Business Operator who applies this term to the product.

The fact that only the courts can decide on the interpretation of the law (and will never bother to spend the money to do so) may prevent a clear legal resolution of the use of the word, but the general view of Chief TS Officers (ACTSO) as NYCC describes above ought to deter beekeepers from using a word with no real meaning.

 

[CaptainCymru]

No, it doesn't, which is why the word can mean anything.

This excerpt from the December 2018 Essex BKA magazine includes the view of Rob Blacklock, Chartered Trading Standards Practitioner, North Yorkshire County Council Trading Standards:

Raw Honey was discussed at a Trading Standards National level in 2017 and is certainly likely to infringe the Food Information for Consumers Regulations (EC 1169/2011). I say likely, as only the courts can decide on the interpretation of the law. The labelling of honey is controlled by the Honey (England) Regulations 2015, including the equivalent legislation in the devolved areas, as well as the EU Food Information for Consumers Regulations 1169/2011 (FIC) and the Food Information Regulations 2014 (FIR).

The term “raw” is not in the list of specified Honey Products or reserved descriptions in the Honey Regulations 2015 and therefore is a term covered by the requirements of the FIC / FIR. The term raw when applied to the name of the food, honey, then becomes misleading - contrary to Article 7 (1) c of Regulation (EU) 1169/2011, as it suggests that this food possesses special characteristics, when all of this type of food have the same characteristics, which are laid down in Schedule 1 of the Honey Regulations 2015.

Article 7 of EU Regulation 1169/2011 reads - Fair information practices 1 Food information shall not be misleading, particularly:… (c) by suggesting that the food possesses special characteristics when in fact all similar foods possess such characteristics, in particular by specifically emphasising the presence or absence of certain ingredients and/or nutrients.

The letter concluded with the following note: Food businesses should be advised not to use the descriptor “raw” when giving food information about honey. The remedy for this breach of Article 7(1) (c) is the service of an improvement notice on the Food Business Operator who applies this term to the product.

The fact that only the courts can decide on the interpretation of the law (and will never bother to spend the money to do so) may prevent a clear legal resolution of the use of the word, but the general view of Chief TS Officers (ACTSO) as NYCC describe above ought to deter beekeepers from using a word with no real meaning.

Youd fight that in 2 seconds as farmers in the US (not sure about UK) use the word Raw to sell milk that has been unpasteurized . The big boys as we know heat the honey up to around 75 degrees to prevent crystallization therefore a sort of pasteurization method since most of the goodness is dead .If it really came down to the crunch ,cold pressed would have the same effect as raw anyway.

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

Youd fight that in 2 seconds as farmers in the US (not sure about UK) use the word Raw to sell milk that has been unpasteurized

Totally different - the use of 'Raw' to described unpasteurised/filtered milk is a legally reserved description in the UK (don't really care about the US), it's not for honey

 

[CaptainCymru]

Totally different - the use of 'Raw' to described unpasteurised/filtered milk is a legally reserved description in the UK (don't really care about the US), it's not for honey

How about Jeans

Raw denim, also known as dry denim, refers to jeans that have not been wet, processed, or manipulated in any way before being purchased.

You know I'm going to keep going until I've listed everything raw in the UK,buckle up boys !

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

How about Jeans

Still not honey though is it? you can't even spred it on your toast

 

[Murox]

Still not honey though is it? you can't even spred it on your toast

No you cant, but I have from a reliable source that denim makes useful smoker fuel.

 

[Swarm]

Legal or not, acceptable or not, it's a word that has slipped onto labels. A way of trying to prove it's not fake? That it's natural? Who knows? It seems increasingly popular (new beek near me is offering 'raw' honey) I think I may change my label to 'Proper Real' honey.

 

[Erichalfbee]

It’s a raw wind outside I can certainly say

 

[CaptainCymru]

Still not honey though is it? you can't even spred it on your toast

Checkmate , bread is still bread toasted or not arguably bread has been heated up to be toasted from its Raw state ......

But ok , found this

Trading standards in the UK do not permit you to use the word raw if you filter your honey in any way.

I.e cut comb is fine

 

[Swarm]

What is a filter? What is a sieve?

 

[CaptainCymru]

What is a filter? What is a sieve?

It's the thing you ruined in the kitchen the first time you tried to render wax

 

[Erichalfbee]

What is a filter? What is a sieve?

A filter is quite complicated. I don’t think anybody filters honey, they just use fine sieves.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Filtration

 

[Swarm]

yup.

 

[ericbeaumont]

Trading standards in the UK do not permit you to use the word raw if you filter your honey in any way.
I.e cut comb is fine

What was the source of this info, CC?

 

[thorn]

Raw or not, I'm fairly sure that what's in the jar is not liquid gold.

 

[Nige.Coll]

There was a court case a while ago.
A large honey packer took a smaller honey packer to court for using the word RAW on their labels.
Because the word RAW has absolutely no meaning other than a gimic word the case was settled under the advertising laws.
The case was based on the fact that having the word RAW on the labels implied that the honey was better than someone else's and deliberately misled the customer as under the honey regs all honey sold as honey is in fact raw. Bakers honey is generally overheated honey.
The large packer won and the small packer had to stop using the word RAW on labels and got stiffed for the costs.

Hasn't done him any harm he's one of the fastest growing companies in the country.

 

[CaptainCymru]

Th

There was a court case a while ago.
A large honey packer took a smaller honey packer to court for using the word RAW on their labels.
Because the word RAW has absolutely no meaning other than a gimic word the case was settled under the advertising laws.
The case was based on the fact that having the word RAW on the labels implied that the honey was better than someone else's and deliberately misled the customer as under the honey regs all honey sold as honey is in fact raw. Bakers honey is generally overheated honey.
The large packer won and the small packer had to stop using the word RAW on labels and got stiffed for the costs.

Hasn't done him any harm he's one of the fastest growing companies in the country.

The costs were prob chicken feed compared to what he made

 

[CaptainCymru]

What was the source of this info, CC?

https://www.scottishbeecompany.co.uk/blogs/news/why-we-don-t-use-the-word-raw

 

[Repwoc]

in fact all similar foods possess such characteristics,

But they don't.

He's wrong, in my opinion. I know some honey is heated and micro filtered before bottling. That is different to my honey, and I would hazard different to the honey of the vast majority if not all of the contributors to this forum.

And since TS can't tell if some supermarket honey is adulterated with sugar syrup it's not surprising that they can't tell the difference between supermarket honey and ours.

 

[ericbeaumont]

A filter is quite complicated. I don’t think anybody filters honey, they just use fine sieves.

Yes, The Honey Regs. are specific:

“filtered honey” means honey obtained by removing foreign inorganic or organic matters in such a way as to result in the significant removal of pollen;

Odd that the extracted honey definition doesn't refer to straining or sieving, which is what most of us do to remove the minimum before sale:

“extracted honey” means honey obtained by centrifuging de-capped broodless combs;