Too early to split?

[Woodland bees]

One of my poly hives is rather full, it's on a double brood and there's about 10 frames of brood in the top box and 7 in the bottom. I was a bit late on the first inspection which I did a week ago and I added the first super. That is 3/4 full now.

Today there's a Q cell that's has started to be charged. I removed it to buy a little time.

I have a few other hives and there's plenty of drone brood and drones in the hives, but I've not seen them flying so far this year. (Hives are in the garden so I do notice them). I'm in a fairly exposed site in Devon with no OSR about so me bees tend to forage on wild flowers/trees etc so I usually get a slowish build up in spring.

Is it ok to split the colony now? Obviously it'll be a few weeks until the new Q mates.

Even if I split the colony should I consider leaving the old Q on a double brood as she'll still be left with a fair bit of brood? I have dummy boards so could leave her in a double brood with say 9 frames in each box.

The other option would be to take the Q out and put her in a nuc box but I'm worried she'll fill that too quickly so I'd prefer to split.

 

[jeff33]

I was wondering that myself. I am giving away a nuc next week which is on 2x 6frames with about 8 frames of brood. I was going to split which would take me to early May before the queen is ready to mate. I am sure some beeks on here start grafting at this time of the year so if you have other beeks near you there should be enough drones by then. If she doesn't mate properly, re-queen later on in the season.

 

[enrico]

Add another brood box or super without QE for the moment and sort it when you have drones.
I am amazed you are so far ahead with no OSR
E

 

[pargyle]

Add another brood box or super without QE for the moment and sort it when you have drones.
I am amazed you are so far ahead with no OSR
E

I have a feeling that it's going to be one swarmy spring - everything here is weeks ahead of what I usually see - there are scouts sniffing around the empty (sealed) hives in my apiary - no queen cells in my colonies but they are stuffed with honey and bees and there is so much blossom about they are looking more like midsummer ..

If people are doing things by rote I think there are going to be a lot of swarms about ... hopefully, now, not my bees !

 

[Stiffy]

Add another brood box or super without QE for the moment and sort it when you have drones.
I am amazed you are so far ahead with no OSR
E

I am too but at one of my out Apiary’s my Buckie’s have been filling a super a week, they are surrounded by willow with no OSR.
Nice early crop which hopefully we can market at some point this year.
Also had a bait hive at another site being checked out by local black bees yesterday.
S

 

[Erichalfbee]

I have a feeling that it's going to be one swarmy spring - everything here is weeks ahead of what I usually see - there are scouts sniffing around the empty (sealed) hives in my apiary - no queen cells in my colonies but they are stuffed with honey and bees and there is so much blossom about they are looking more like midsummer ..

If people are doing things by rote I think there are going to be a lot of swarms about ... hopefully, now, not my bees !

Yes same here. All my hives have two supers on and have drones, although I haven’t seen them flying yet.
The fields are full of dandelions and there is a huge flow on
Sycamore flowers are already starting to open and the Hawthorn is not far off
My bait hives are busy too.

 

[jeff33]

Yes about the same here. All my hives are on dble brood but they are slow filling supers. Already ran out of brood frames and foundation and brood boxes. The bait hives may wait another week... Although I don't currently know if I want more bees.

 

[enrico]

Thanks for the heads up. Will be checking mine again this week again then! In which case, provided you have drones then split!!!
E

 

[Poly Hive]

Every year it makes me chuckle.

My reality this weekend? Friday hit 19 briefly. Saturday was 14, yesterday was 11, and today is 4. Yes fourC.

Swarming, making increase etc etc May at the earliest up here if not June.

Last year it was late July before I could do anything with Queen rearing and then the weather failed again and all the nucs based on those queens died off due to queen failure.

Some here are better off than they know.

PH

 

[jeff33]

Point taken PH, there are indeed worse issues to have for us folks in the south. I was watching a program on the western Isles and outer Hebrides and thought I could live up that way but had the sudden realisation that my bees couldn't.

 

[pargyle]

Some here are better off than they know.

PH

I think those of us South of Watford do appreciate the climate we enjoy compared to Scotland and even the line from the midlands to the North. There are some of us who even enjoy micro climates such as I have on the Costa del Fareham .. protected to the North by Portsdown hill, to the South by the Solent and the Isle of Wight. We rarely get snow or heavy frosts - Go 10 miles North to Petersfield and beyond and the climate drops 5 degrees on average.

I'm sure there are many locations where there are similar natural geographia that affect the climate and in many cases favour the beekeeper.

But ... they tend to be more popluated ! Scotland is beautiful, much of it is cleaner, much less populated, more land is available and it's cheaper ... but a lot of it is nearer the arctic circle than to the South Coast - so it's bloody cold a lot of the time. Swings and roundabouts ?

 

[madasafish]

Been a very wet and cold winter..Build up has been slow..

Hives all way behind those in the South - same as every year..
Today it is 9C as I write at 12am and very sunny but a cold North wind.. so not a bee in sight. Yesterday was 17C and inspected Association hive in ideal conditions...

 

[Woodland bees]

I am amazed you are so far ahead with no OSR

So am I. It's mostly pasture where we are with some fields having a decent amount of wild flowers. Along with gorse we have a decent amount of dandelions about along with blackthorn etc. But nothing in abundance, even the hives don't smell as strong of dandelion as they've done in previous years.

This hive is the most sheltered and a paynes poly, so well insulated for here. I've also not fed any sugar at all so overwintered on it's own stores. If anything I was keeping an eye on it as it was a little lighter than I wanted.

I think they've had room to expand and had just enough to get through the wet winter and ready for the sunny weather.

Anyway, looks like I was right to be a little worried about mating a Q so early. Although we are south of Watford I tend to think we're more like Wales as we're exposed to the westerlies. So not as far ahead as the South and SE. We also don't have that many people we know of keeping bees around here, even those that do may well have hives that have built up slower than ours so no drones yet.

I will add another super and inspect at the end of the week. It looks like it might be getting a bit cooler but the foragers from that hive seem happy to go out when it seems too cold to me.

 

[Camey]

Drones flying, caught on video, hopefully

So, I'm buzzingly exited today. On my second year beekeeping, all set up to split my 2 hives to make a further 2, also have swarm hive ready in garden. However I was thinking as I live East coast FIFE and weather has been ok during day around 13°C but cold evenings, I would have around another couple of weeks before splitting or swarming issues. BUT today I THINK? I have witnessed seeing some drones flying around the garden, look like drones, hovering , then darting around then going back to same area to fly again, not visiting flowers, I have videoed and taken a few screen shots, difficult to get a good focus, Not checked inside hives thus far, all looks good outside activity and cortex bottom board, plan was to do first internal inspection today, 14°C sunny, just getting my inspection plan together in my head, ( pre plan, incase split required today)then breath slowly and become a Tia Chi master

 

[Newbeeneil]

So, I'm buzzingly exited today. On my second year beekeeping, all set up to split my 2 hives to make a further 2, also have swarm hive ready in garden. However I was thinking as I live East coast FIFE and weather has been ok during day around 13°C but cold evenings, I would have around another couple of weeks before splitting or swarming issues. BUT today I THINK? I have witnessed seeing some drones flying around the garden, look like drones, hovering , then darting around then going back to same area to fly again, not visiting flowers, I have videoed and taken a few screen shots, difficult to get a good focus, Not checked inside hives thus far, all looks good outside activity and cortex bottom board, plan was to do first internal inspection today, 14°C sunny, just getting my inspection plan together in my head, ( pre plan, incase split required today)then breath slowly and become a Tia Chi master

sounds more like the flight of a hover fly to me.

 

[BugsInABox]

Hi Camey, how did it go? Also in my second year and split them today. Last week they had loads of everything - today less stored and loads (and loads of drone comb). I moved some combs around last week you encourage them build - which they've done in spades but I think now that was a mistake as I also decided to split this week. I suppose I had the option of waiting but for the 1st time I saw Queen cups - few at bottom of combs and at least one in a supercedure mid frame spot - so recon I did the right think.... maybe.
It felt like a brutal process - fingers crossed.

 

[Camey]

sounds more like the flight of a hover fly to me.

Yeah, I thought the same, but they look more like Drones than hover flies but there are a few hover flies around as well, ill try and get some screen shots downloaded

 

[Murox]

Perhaps they were beeflies.
https://www.brc.ac.uk/soldierflies-and-allies/sites/www.brc.ac.uk.soldierflies-and-allies/files/Bombylius%20ID%20guide.pdf

 

[enrico]

Hi Camey, how did it go? Also in my second year and split them today. Last week they had loads of everything - today less stored and loads (and loads of drone comb). I moved some combs around last week you encourage them build - which they've done in spades but I think now that was a mistake as I also decided to split this week. I suppose I had the option of waiting but for the 1st time I saw Queen cups - few at bottom of combs and at least one in a supercedure mid frame spot - so recon I did the right think.... maybe.
It felt like a brutal process - fingers crossed.

Please don't think queen cups mean swarming. They build them all the time. Fingers crossed for your split though.

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

Please don't think queen cups mean swarming. They build them all the time.

I'm also a bit concerned with this fad of 'splitting' the colony at the least excuse, whether it's to make increase or avoid (m.ake note - not control) swarm preparations.
There comes a time when you have to work with your bees, not against. Just splitting for the sake of it is just going to end up with weaker colonies and badly mated or poor queens.
Reminds me of a comment Finnie made a few years ago about the very same subject.

Split splat splot!!​