Thymol treatment- have I had a good idea?

[Skyhook]

This is regarding Hivemakers thymol treatment for varroa.

The thread started with using the mixture on oasis. The majority view then moved to using it on kitchen paper, with a minority faction favouring teabags.

What would be the down sides of trickling it direct onto the top bars? It could save a happy evening of f*nnying around fumigating oneself in the kitchen preparing the pads.



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[madasafish]

This is regarding Hivemakers thymol treatment for varroa.

The thread started with using the mixture on oasis. The majority view then moved to using it on kitchen paper, with a minority faction favouring teabags.

What would be the down sides of trickling it direct onto the top bars? It could save a happy evening of f*nnying around fumigating oneself in the kitchen preparing the pads.



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A great way of killing bees with a huge release of thymol vapour.

 

[pargyle]

This is regarding Hivemakers thymol treatment for varroa.

The thread started with using the mixture on oasis. The majority view then moved to using it on kitchen paper, with a minority faction favouring teabags.

What would be the down sides of trickling it direct onto the top bars? It could save a happy evening of f*nnying around fumigating oneself in the kitchen preparing the pads.

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Even tempered by the slow release function of the Oasis and/or kitchen roll wads the stuff stinks like crazy ... imagine what it would be like for the bees just poured in neat !!

 

[itma]

The commercial product formulations (and even the Oasis) serve to control the vapour release rate and distribute it equally around the hive.
I think that the original methodology was just to chuck some Thymol crystals in there - a frame was specially made for the purpose (and still sold by Thornes).

I think we may have advanced from that point.


///Added --- see for example http://www.dave-cushman.net/bee/fraknoframe.html

 

[Skyhook]

Even tempered by the slow release function of the Oasis and/or kitchen roll wads the stuff stinks like crazy ... imagine what it would be like for the bees just poured in neat !!

My thinking was to trickle it onto the top bars, and that it would soak into the wood which would thereby act as the pad- rather than just slosh it about.

The general opinion seems to be that it wouldn't be a good idea- perhaps I'll keep my thinking inside the box in future.

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[pargyle]

My thinking was to trickle it onto the top bars, and that it would soak into the wood which would thereby act as the pad- rather than just slosh it about.

The general opinion seems to be that it wouldn't be a good idea- perhaps I'll keep my thinking inside the box in future.

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No ... keep looking outside the box ... if some early days beekeepers hadn't looked outside the box we would still be keeping bees in skeps and killing them off every autumn. Just look back at some of the outrageous ideas for hives that came about when people thought outside the traditional skep ... but one or two of them came up with something that worked ... and so it goes on. It's called product development in industry and evolution in nature !

 

[Luminos]

No ... keep looking outside the box ... if some early days beekeepers hadn't looked outside the box we would still be keeping bees in skeps and killing them off every autumn. Just look back at some of the outrageous ideas for hives that came about when people thought outside the traditional skep ... but one or two of them came up with something that worked ... and so it goes on. It's called product development in industry and evolution in nature !

 

[drstitson]

"It could save a happy evening of f*nnying around fumigating oneself in the kitchen preparing the pads."

kitchen towels don't need pre-prep - just take jar and syringe to hive with a stack of towels. place towel on suitable surface, apply dose, allow to soak in briefly then apply.

and that's from someone who loves the smell of thymol - more than happy to cook it up indoors.

 

[itma]

My thinking was to trickle it onto the top bars, and that it would soak into the wood which would thereby act as the pad- rather than just slosh it about.

Worth your having a read of Randy Oliver's Thymol page ...
http://scientificbeekeeping.com/ipm-7-the-arsenal-natural-treatments-part-2/

Thymol is sold as a white crystal, which is relatively safe to handle if there is good ventilation, and nitrile gloves are worn. The standard dose is 8 – 12g of pure thymol, applied in dishes on the top bars, repeated two to three times. Unfortunately, the evaporation rate of pure crystals is extremely temperature dependent. They can evaporate too quickly in warm weather, and kill bees and brood, since the lethal concentration of thymol to bees is only some 2-4 times that which kills mites

Apiguard®

This newer product, manufactured by a British company, consists of 25% thymol dissolved in a cross-linked polyacrylic acid gel. The gel serves two purposes: it regulates the release of the thymol at varying temperatures, and it serves as a carrier that causes the bees to “track” thymol throughout the hive as they remove it.

Kitchen chemists and oils

Since the essential oils are so much fun to play with, numerous beekeepers have indulged in kitchen chemistry to mix up varroa treatments. We don’t hear much from those who kill their bees outright, nor from those whose colonies die later due to lack of efficacy or colony stress due to the treatment. Those whose bees survive for a season generally post their recipe to the internet, where it gains a cyberlife, independent of its actual efficacy.

If it were easy to come up with an inexpensive application method for essential oils, those clever (and desperate) Europeans would likely have done so by now. The “margin of safety” between the dose that kills mites, and the dose that kills bees is narrow. In addition, evaporation is extremely temperature sensitive. Add to that the fact that individual colonies respond differently to the treatment—some will propolize up the material, some will quickly remove it, some fan it away from the broodnest, and others remove the brood.

Experiment if you will, but don’t bet your whole operation on an unproven recipe!

 

[BeeJayBee]

My thinking was to trickle it onto the top bars, and that it would soak into the wood which would thereby act as the pad- rather than just slosh it about.

The general opinion seems to be that it wouldn't be a good idea- perhaps I'll keep my thinking inside the box in future.

I'd probably go along with the 'not a good idea', if only because with the "thymol pads" the bees can get rid of the bits of oasis, tissue or whatever is used as a carrier, they can't easily get rid of frame top bars.

I don't know how long the thymol would stay in the wood. It could mean it's there for ever, or until the frame is replaced, so could have an impact on any honey collected next season.

 

[madasafish]

I don't know how long the thymol would stay in the wood. It could mean it's there for ever, or until the frame is replaced, so could have an impact on any honey collected next season.

I medicate via pieces of string dipped in thymol mix (topbars are a pia for treatment if diy)... and a year after treatment bees are still removing strings out of the entrance. So I suggest wood could retain the scent - as it affects bees- much longer.

 

[Finman]

What would be the down sides of trickling
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That thymol treatment has been used at least 15 years. You put the thymol slice on top bars. Why it is needed something else then? It cannot be easier, or can it?

Thymols works as gas. With trickling it makes a psysical contact and surely many have tried it.
Perizin trickling was the first good mite stuff 25 years ago.

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[Finman]

we would still be keeping bees in skeps and killing them off every autumn. !

Oh my goodness. What is going on in Britain......

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[For want of a better word]

I was wondering... after preparing 30+ doses of Apiguard from a tub and onto a bit of card... that I could not tell through the veil was shiny side up....

... and having given up on the ludicrously expensive foil tin cup thingies......
that there has to be an easier way to dose the hives with thymol !

Keep the ideas coming folks!

 

[Hombre]

I was wondering... after preparing 30+ doses of Apiguard from a tub and onto a bit of card... that I could not tell through the veil was shiny side up....

Even without a veil, more experienced people than you have the same difficulty. A few years ago they at least silvered one side of the card, but doubtless someone has done a cost analysis . . . but does it really matter?

 

[PBee]

I was wondering... after preparing 30+ doses of Apiguard from a tub and onto a bit of card... that I could not tell through the veil was shiny side up....

... and having given up on the ludicrously expensive foil tin cup thingies......
that there has to be an easier way to dose the hives with thymol !

Keep the ideas coming folks!

I use cut up milk cartons for apiguard. Some of the colonies go to great lengths to try and isolate the card with propolis 'curtains' ...

 

[Beeka]

Just thought I'd add my first (and only!) experience of using pure Thymol crystals. The advice came from one of my associations more respected members.

I placed 2 level teaspoons (6-8 gms?) in a jam jar lid directly on the top of the frames.. after 30 minutes the bees were evacuating the hive and pulling out a lot of pupae (I removed the Thymol) 12 hours later there were a lot of dead bees and pulled out pupae. They were still pulling them out 18 hours later.

After 2 days they had cleared out every egg, larvae and pupae from the frames, completely empty and no queen to be found! Another inspection 4 days later and we found eggs in most empty cells on all the frames and caught sight of the queen - quite a relief...a distressing experience (not least for the bees) that I don't want to repeat.

The weather was reasonably warm but not hot and I now realise there was probably not enough ventilation. The dose was maybe too high for 7 frames of bees.

I haven't seen a single varroa on the inspection board since tho'....

 

[Finman]

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Our beeks do not make own thymol pads. They buy them from procer.

Treatment costs 5 pad package = to 5 one box hives cost £ 8 = £ 1.6 /hive

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

I was wondering... after preparing 30+ doses of Apiguard from a tub and onto a bit of card... that I could not tell through the veil was shiny side up....

... and having given up on the ludicrously expensive foil tin cup thingies......
that there has to be an easier way to dose the hives with thymol !

Keep the ideas coming folks!

Save up your mr kipling individual cherry bakewell pie tins throughout the year and use those

 

[For want of a better word]

Solved it... pencil mark the dull side or write other side up on it
Apiguard is placed on the shiny side that the pencil will not write on..

Had very low Varroa drops from the Amm colonies... but huge drops from the Buckfasttypelocalfrankenbees caught in bait hives.... but not from the open flying swarms... strange !

Thankfully all colonies treated for this year.... any suggestions with what to use old blue tubs for?