Thymol recipe against Nosema & fermentation of syrup feed...

[XYZ]

Is there any harm if the sugar syrup mixture has a slightly higher percentage of thymol than the recipe?

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

Is there any harm if the sugar syrup mixture has a slightly higher percentage of thymol than the recipe?

No - if you read HM's post he says that he has put double in before now with no harm to the bees

 

[XYZ]

No - if you read HM's post he says that he has put double in before now with no harm to the bees

Brilliant thanks JBM

My measuring out wasn't a precision exercise by any means

 

[SDM]

Is there any reason for dissolving the thymol separately?
Why not jus add the crystals to the lecithin mix and skip the alcohol

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

thymol is not water soluble

 

[Beefriendly]

But it is soluble in water, but not very well, 0.9g/litre.
Just google thymol water solubility.

 

[SDM]

But you are not dissolving the thymol in 5ml of alchol, you are just speeding up melting it.
It melts happily in the lecithin mix as far as I can tell. Anyway I made a batch this way and I can't tell the difference.

 

[For want of a better word]

Is there any reason for dissolving the thymol separately?
Why not jus add the crystals to the lecithin mix and skip the alcohol

The lecethin works as a carrier emulsion
Thymol does not dissolve very well in water
Dissolving the thymol in alcohol allows the thymol to mix with the lecethin in an emulsion.
The 140ml of water makes up the emulsion into an easily doseable mix... 5ml of emulsion per 10 liters 2;1 syrup 9 OR near as dam it seems to stop the sugar fermenting and growing a nasty looking black mould !!

Yeghes da

 

[Erichalfbee]

To emulsify or not to emulsify?
That is the question
Do you think we can get this discussion onto every thread somehow?

 

[SDM]

The lecethin works as a carrier emulsion
Thymol does not dissolve very well in water
Dissolving the thymol in alcohol allows the thymol to mix with the lecethin in an emulsion.
The 140ml of water makes up the emulsion into an easily doseable mix... 5ml of emulsion per 10 liters 2;1 syrup 9 OR near as dam it seems to stop the sugar fermenting and growing a nasty looking black mould !!

Yeghes da

I know all that , except I've always used 1ml per litre not .5ml as you do.
What I'm saying is that the first stage is just warming and melting the thymol crystals. You can skip that stage and just add the crystals to the lecithin mix( as long as it's hot) the crystals still melt and you get the same emulsion.

 

[Repwoc]

... the first stage is just warming and melting the thymol crystals. You can skip that stage and just add the crystals to the lecithin mix( as long as it's hot) the crystals still melt and you get the same emulsion.

That makes sense with the melting point of thymol being ~ 50 ºC.

 

[SDM]

It's no different from warming it up when it solidifies.
Less faff and no need for alcohol when making it.

 

[drex]

To emulsify or not to emulsify?
That is the question
Do you think we can get this discussion onto every thread somehow?

Love it Dani!

 

[citrus]

The lecethin works as a carrier emulsion
Thymol does not dissolve very well in water
Dissolving the thymol in alcohol allows the thymol to mix with the lecethin in an emulsion.
The 140ml of water makes up the emulsion into an easily doseable mix... 5ml of emulsion per 10 liters 2;1 syrup 9 OR near as dam it seems to stop the sugar fermenting and growing a nasty looking black mould !!

Yeghes da

so I have 5kg of 2:1 that was made upa week ago (4kg sugar and 2.5l water) and so just need half a teaspoon of that thymol emulsion ... then just stir it in ?

or do I need to warm up the sugar solution again ?

 

[XYZ]

so I have 5kg of 2:1 that was made upa week ago (4kg sugar and 2.5l water) and so just need half a teaspoon of that thymol emulsion ... then just stir it in ?

or do I need to warm up the sugar solution again ?

Hivemaker's instructions are 5ml per gallon of syrup. You have over a gallon there mate.
I filled a 25 litre bucket then shot the thymol solution in and gave it a good stir. Worked so far for me.

 

[madasafish]

I keep my emulsion mix in a jar with sealed lid. I keep a small amount in a medicine bottle with dropper.. Makes adding to solution a doddle..You can count the drops if you like!

 

[RichardBeeW]

Ok, sort of a bit off topic - but I’m not very tall and so couldn’t see the topic I wanted on the search facility - here goes - Following the advice of a USA beekeeper, David at Barnyard Bees (I know) when looking for help on this subject I’ve been using Tea Tree oil, emulsified through liquidiser in water, which, my friend David (ABBs) assures me a) stops fermentation / mould in syrup and b) prevents Nosema. I wish I had found you ‘guys’ earlier but any thoughts please? Oh, and thanks for such a useful and enjoyable forum PS kept 5 Langstroths from about 1982 for 6 years then almost bedridden until recently so this is really my first year (again). Everything has changed - I’m using BNs this time round but I don’t recognise any of the bees

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

I’ve been using Tea Tree oil, emulsified through liquidiser in water, which, my friend David (ABBs) assures me a) stops fermentation / mould in syrup and b) prevents Nosema. I wish I had found you ‘guys’ earlier but any thoughts please?

Never heard of such a thing and the one bit of 'proper' research on its use I have found was a 2017 study
"Oral administration of essential oils and main components: Study on honey bee survival and Nosema ceranae development" by Dr Martín Pablo Porrin at the Universidad Nacional de Mar del Plata in Argentina found that it had no effect on nosema at all so, basically, snakeoil
I think ot also applied to Thyme essential oil (as opposed to Thymol crystals)

 

[RichardBeeW]

Never heard of such a thing and the one bit of 'proper' research on its use I have found was a 2017 study
"Oral administration of essential oils and main components: Study on honey bee survival and Nosema ceranae development" by Dr Martín Pablo Porrin at the Universidad Nacional de Mar del Plata in Argentina found that it had no effect on nosema at all so, basically, snakeoil
I think ot also applied to Thyme essential oil (as opposed to Thymol crystals)

Thank you JBM, I didn’t even register the fact that Thymol crystals were a different thing to the essential oils! Will look back on this topic as I think you mentioned where to get them - very grateful

 

[peteinwilts]

Hi Guys

I have been using Lecithin granules for years and works really well.
However, I understand there is a Lecithin shortage this year, and the health food shops have none.

Online, there are a number of suppliers that are willing to sell it, despite not having stock. Also, other retailers sell granules with additives.

Has anyone (successfully) tried other emulsifiers that do not have a negative effect on the bees? oats perhaps?

I appreciate some do not use Lecithin, but to me, emulsifying makes complete sense.