Thoughts about Carnica and Langstroth hives

Beekeeping & Apiculture Forum

Help Support Beekeeping & Apiculture Forum:

This site may earn a commission from merchant affiliate links, including eBay, Amazon, and others.
You will find a world of different information with regard to various races of bees and the hives they are kept in. Note that B+ keeps his Carni's in double Langstroth's. The reason being that a single is not enough for a prolific queen, especially in the spring buildup.

My suggestion is to determine which bee to keep based on local flows. Here are a few generalizations worth considering.

Carniolans are adapted to areas with strong spring and relatively weak fall flows. If this describes your conditions, then they will perform as well or better than other races.

Italians tend to brood up starting in the spring and maintaining a large colony all summer and into the fall and overwintering with a large cluster. In my area, that huge colony in mid-summer and all winter is a huge detriment. Italians can be really good honey producers, but my experience is that their wintering ability is not good enough.

The A.M.m. colonies I've worked with would build up very strong in the spring, then curtail brood rearing during the summer, and increase numbers again for the fall flows. Their weakness is a very strong tendency to swarm and a tendency to collect honeydew in preference to floral honey. Their incredible vitality and ability to survive with very small colonies over winter make them acceptable in some areas. I won't use them because of issues with the honey produced.

Buckfast have to be given consideration, especially if you have a strong spring flow and another strong fall flow. They can easily fill a double Langstroth with bees and brood. I can use Buckfast to good effect with the flows and conditions under which I keep bees.

Caucasian's have advantages in areas with long slow spring buildup and especially when the fall flow is very strong. I won't use them because they fall short in the spring flow. They are also inveterate propolis hoarders gumming up every interior surface with sticky goo.
From the description of your region, Carniolans and Buckfast should be primary contenders.
So what bees do I keep? My bees are mutts from crossing A.M.m. with Italians and with a bit of Africanized genetics tossed in. I have not treated for varroa since the winter of 2004/2005. My bees exhibit strong hygienic behavior with a dose of hive beetle resistance from the Africanized genes. I have little or no problem managing them as I culled the worst stingers and kept the bees that could be worked while wearing a t-shirt and jeans. My current breeding project is to raise queens from 2nd generation Buckfast and mate them back to drones from my line. I'm getting very gentle bees with excellent honey production, zero issues with varroa, and good control of hive beetles.
Thanks for sharing all that. Your current bees sound great, very much like my own, very calm and docile; except I don't know about their hygienic behaviour (currently clear of varroa) and mine are not the greatest honey producers.
 
Thank you Leigh for the Swienty "critique", very helpful.

Thanks to Foghornleghorn as well for sharing your experiences - I don't suppose our climates are so very different.
 
Why don’t you drop Itld a pm who is on this site. That would be my first port of call for some advice. Ian
 
I'm waving at you GuyNir - I can just see the coastal outline around the Girvan area on the occasional clear day when out for a walk. :nature-smiley-016:
 
I'm waving at you GuyNir - I can just see the coastal outline around the Girvan area on the occasional clear day when out for a walk. :nature-smiley-016:

I spend a week in Tighnabruaich every year; lovely part of the world :)
Tough conditions for bees I'd imagine.

Regarding the Swienty Langstroth boxes, I agree with Leigh. I use framed excluders and don't use their floors (I make my own from wood). They are great boxes - all one piece, so strong. They need painting. A BB full of honey is indeed seriously heavy. I use the metal roof with poly insert.
 
A BB full of honey is indeed seriously heavy.

Occasionally, a Langstroth brood box will weigh ~35Kg gross but, usually, they're just under 30Kg (I collected 7 the other day that weighed 192Kg). That is a lot of weight to lift so it's easier to clear the box of bees then transfer a few frames at a time onto a spare box on a sack trolley. Then, just wheel it out of the apiary

The difficulty is not just that the box is heavy but it's often at the top of a 6' tall stack!
 
Last edited:
I spend a week in Tighnabruaich every year; lovely part of the world :)
Tough conditions for bees I'd imagine.

Regarding the Swienty Langstroth boxes, I agree with Leigh. I use framed excluders and don't use their floors (I make my own from wood). They are great boxes - all one piece, so strong. They need painting. A BB full of honey is indeed seriously heavy. I use the metal roof with poly insert.

Yes the Cowal is particularly lovely.

Interesting that you build your own floors. I have been looking hard at the make up of the floors of many poly lang. hives from pictures and had seriously wondered about doing just that.
 
Murox? the guy to ask is ITLD and follow on Twitter too.

He runs exactly what you are asking and if it works for him in the thousands I would rather ignore what is done locally.

You can make floors for pennies and provided the ventilation is good the material is academic.

PH
 
Not sure if anybody use Smith's hives , can you even obtain the parts anymore? I moved on from Calvinism - found the disapproval of Christmas celebrations and theatre, among other things a bit OTT.

I believe Chain Bridge manufacture Smith's in polly.... Beehive Equipment and Maisemore sell Smiths' frames.

I moved on from Primitive Methodism for similar reasons!

Chons da
 
Thats correct. Not quite sure why they went that route but each to their own and of course the more choice in poly the better. What still amazes me is that Thornes have not woken up yet.

PH
 
the more choice in poly the better. What still amazes me is that Thornes have not woken up yet. PH

I heard that Thorne decided (some time ago) not to enter the poly market; not surprising, since they'd invested heavily not that long ago in a new factory based on the supply of wooden equipment.
 
I was told point blank buy a Thornes director that they were not going into poly. I had a thought and bit my tongue... thinking Finland. LOL 80+% poly now if not 90! Bit of a clue there really...

PH
 
I was told point blank buy a Thornes director that they were not going into poly. I had a thought and bit my tongue... thinking Finland. LOL 80+% poly now if not 90! Bit of a clue there really...

PH
Reminds of the story about Netflix asking Blockbuster if they would be interested in buying them in 2000 and were laughed out of the board room :D

Manufacturing in general is not some corporate out-of-reach process that folk sometimes think it is. You can easily approach poly moulding companies in China and have 10,000 hives produced. It's just about putting that money up front.

Would love to price it up for real, as I cant help but think 100+ quid for basic floor, broodbox, roof and super, must have huge markups on them.
 
R

Would love to price it up for real, as I cant help but think 100+ quid for basic floor, broodbox, roof and super, must have huge markups on them.

Well its approx £10K to have each mould made to your design. So floor, brood box super crown board miller type feeder and roof sets you back about 60K and thats before you have cast your first parts. Add in labour to make transport to you and trying to get a return on your initial outlay of 60K and there isn't that much profit to be made.
 
I believe that Chain Bridge went for the Smith brood box only in poly to save precisely those start up costs.

PH
 
Well its approx £10K to have each mould made to your design. So floor, brood box super crown board miller type feeder and roof sets you back about 60K and thats before you have cast your first parts. Add in labour to make transport to you and trying to get a return on your initial outlay of 60K and there isn't that much profit to be made.
60K? thats peanuts for the potential profits...you sell 600 hives at £100 and you already recovered the cost of the moulds. It's a constant market potential as well, albeit seasonal but has high demand yearly from commercial and hobby keepers. Don't the poly brood boxes have a 3 year shelf life in rough use also?
 

Latest posts

Back
Top