The varroa solution

[Paulypaul]

Watched this talk by Steve Riley, from Westerham Beekeepers and member of the “Path to Varroa-resistance in the UK” team, led by Emeritus Professor Stephen Martin.

He provides a concise update on the latest research on varroa resistance behaviour in honey bees.
I recommend a watch.


For me, the biggest takeaway was an increasing opinion that the way forward for varroa control is behavioural selection, not miticides.
An added bonus is that varroa resistant bees are also more resistant to diseases like CPBV and Deformed wing virus.

By using miticides to treat varroa we are breeding weak bees, reliant on our miticide treatments.

The challenge for us beekeepers will be the disruption. We're talking about a combination of brutal natural selection and careful selective queen breeding - fewer sublimation gadgets and more beekeeping (skills).

Unlike the US, there's no significant commercial supplier of varroa resistant queens in the UK - a business opportunity for someone.

How do you all feel about this?

 

[Gilberdyke John]

Watched this talk by Steve Riley, from Westerham Beekeepers and member of the “Path to Varroa-resistance in the UK” team, led by Emeritus Professor Stephen Martin.

He provides a concise update on the latest research on varroa resistance behaviour in honey bees.
I recommend a watch.


For me, the biggest takeaway was an increasing opinion that the way forward for varroa control is behavioural selection, not miticides.

The challenge for us beekeepers will be the disruption. We're talking about a combination of brutal natural selection and careful selective queen breeding - fewer sublimation gadgets and more beekeeping (skills).

How do you all feel about this?

Sublimation works. I don't think brutal natural selection is going to be a preferred method among the majority of UK beekeepers. Granted there are a few non treatment keepers around - some successful but many not. In the words of the old saying yer pays yer money and yer takes yer pick.

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

just the usual drivel from the usual camp - using Steve Martin's name to imply endorsement

 

[pargyle]

There is good evidence that resistance to varroa is building in some colonies but not treating is always going to attract negative comments from some quarters so I'm moving this thread to the TF section before it deteriorates into the usual fracas.

 

[Beesnaturally]

For me, the biggest takeaway was an increasing opinion that the way forward for varroa control is behavioural selection, not miticides.

Or a completely different approach, one that places an emphasis on drawing from (and not damaging) the local wild /feral population. Natural selection is the best way forward by far. Drawing from it with bait boxes and drone input the best way forward. Human selection is a poor second-best.

An added bonus is that varroa resistant bees are also more resistant to diseases like CPBV and Deformed wing virus.

Especially if natural selection is at work. What you are getting is the finest genes for your area, across the board (well, maybe not always in terms of docility!)

By using miticides to treat varroa we are breeding weak bees, reliant on our miticide treatments.

Absolutely. Its an addiction scenario: the more you dose the more you have to dose. Not least because you are continuously corroding a wild population around you that would supply exactly what you want and need! (And furthermore supply all flowing plants with what they want and need)

The challenge for us beekeepers will be the disruption. We're talking about a combination of brutal natural selection and careful selective queen breeding - fewer sublimation gadgets and more beekeeping (skills).

Put out plenty of bait boxes. Slaughter any painted queens. Provide homes for bees and collect the honey while they sort out the business of health. Don't restrict their ability to make drones - you want those drones in the air. Catch your wild healthy bees and raise new queens to replace existing duff ones.

Unlike the US, there's no significant commercial supplier of varroa resistant queens in the UK - a business opportunity for someone.

A queen isn't enough. You want the varroa her colony has bred along with her. Forget magic queens.

How do you all feel about this?

Strongly You are on the right track, you'll get there and faster than you thought. Build plenty of bait boxes and get them out with a good quality pheromone in early March. You'll be in business as a treatment free beekeeper by late May.

 

[Paulypaul]

Strongly You are on the right track, you'll get there and faster than you thought. Build plenty of bait boxes and get them out with a good quality pheromone in early March. You'll be in business as a treatment free beekeeper by late May.

Most of my colonies are caught swarms or from swarm stock. I inherited 3 x F1 Buckfasts, which have since re-queened via open-mating.
I'm not a hippie-dippy, I don't do ley lines, I'm not a vegan. My drive is not to keep "natural" bees; it's to keep my beekeeping simple, and not build up a miticide dependency.

I treat once a year, in the autumn. This year, I had 1 colony with noticeable levels of varroa. Other colonies didn't show signs of high varroa loads, this was confirmed by the local bee inspector.

Next year will be my 3rd year of beekeeping. I think this will be the year I could start seeing higher mite loads and its accompanying issues.

I have 14 colonies and a goal of getting to 50. Ideally, I'd like to address the issue now, so I can push ahead with varroa-resistant stock.

 

[Erichalfbee]

I’m moving house hopefully next year. My aim is to keep just two colonies. I’m too old to be messing about losing colonies and hoping to stumble on bees that can cope without interference. My InstantVap does the trick. My present stock thrive and give me honey.
For me it’s a hobby and I’m happy with the status quo.

 

[Beesnaturally]

⁹

I'm not a hippie-dippy, I don't do ley lines, I'm not a vegan. My drive is not to keep "natural" bees; it's to keep my beekeeping simple, and not build up a miticide dependency.

Me neither. Honeyfarming is my livelihood. I've been building my stock for 14 years, starting with cutouts and swarms, having over 100 colonies at one point.

I've never bought a bee, and never treated or mollycoddled in any manner. I've understood how natural selection for the fittest strains works for over 50 years. I understand predator-prey co-evolution, the 'arms race'. Last year and the year before I baited about about 15 swarms, 30 in all.

Don't be thinking you are talking to somebody who doesn't know his way around the subject.

 

[Beesnaturally]

I’m moving house hopefully next year. My aim is to keep just two colonies. I’m too old to be messing about losing colonies and hoping to stumble on bees that can cope without interference. My InstantVap does the trick. My present stock thrive and give me honey.
For me it’s a hobby and I’m happy with the status quo.

Have we left the treatment free section?

 

[Paulypaul]

Don't be thinking you are talking to somebody who doesn't know his way around the subject.

Apologies. I didn't mean to sound disrespectful.
I've noticed that, unfortunately, discussion of "treatment free" beekeeping can be hijacked by people driven by new age and mystical beliefs, rather than practical beekeeping concerns. So, I'm glad to make your acquittance.

I've had too many exchanges like this...

 

[Erichalfbee]

Apologies. I didn't mean to sound disrespectful.
I've noticed that, unfortunately, discussion of "treatment free" beekeeping can be hijacked by people driven by new age and mystical beliefs, rather than practical beekeeping concerns. So, I'm glad to make your acquittance.

I've had too many exchanges like this...
View attachment 41824

https://agricology.co.uk/blog/allowing-bees-be-natural-and-sustainable-beekeeping/
Seems to be the chap you’re talking to
The rest of the site is interesting too.

 

[Erichalfbee]

Have we left the treatment free section?

Oops. When I first looked it was in the general beekeeping section but i see Philip has moved it. I’m sure the OP doesn’t mind my response being in his thread.

 

[Beesnaturally]

Apologies. I didn't mean to sound disrespectful.
I've noticed that, unfortunately, discussion of "treatment free" beekeeping can be hijacked by people driven by new age and mystical beliefs, rather than practical beekeeping concerns. So, I'm glad to make your acquittance.

I've had too many exchanges like this...

No problem! Lots of people do the right things for the wrong reasons Unfortunately stuff like this can misinform, and put off people who might otherwise try.

Its really about having a feral population around you, and unless you are unlucky its very likely you have by now, as they've made a strong comeback. Not only that they've had a chance now to regain health, the strength to give good yields, and are locally adapted. I have found they've darkened quite a lot in recent years, as if recovering their indigenous genes.

 

[Beesnaturally]

Oops. When I first looked it was in the general beekeeping section but i see Philip has moved it. I’m sure the OP doesn’t mind my response being in his thread.

Maybe, but it will give a licence to others...

 

[Penninetrader]

Or a completely different approach, one that places an emphasis on drawing from (and not damaging) the local wild /feral population. Natural selection is the best way forward by far. Drawing from it with bait boxes and drone input the best way forward. Human selection is a poor second-best.

Especially if natural selection is at work. What you are getting is the finest genes for your area, across the board (well, maybe not always in terms of docility!)

Absolutely. Its an addiction scenario: the more you dose the more you have to dose. Not least because you are continuously corroding a wild population around you that would supply exactly what you want and need! (And furthermore supply all flowing plants with what they want and need)

Put out plenty of bait boxes. Slaughter any painted queens. Provide homes for bees and collect the honey while they sort out the business of health. Don't restrict their ability to make drones - you want those drones in the air. Catch your wild healthy bees and raise new queens to replace existing duff ones.

A queen isn't enough. You want the varroa her colony has bred along with her. Forget magic queens.

Strongly You are on the right track, you'll get there and faster than you thought. Build plenty of bait boxes and get them out with a good quality pheromone in early March. You'll be in business as a treatment free beekeeper by late May.

And the bait you prefer ?

 

[Penninetrader]

⁹

Me neither. Honeyfarming is my livelihood. I've been building my stock for 14 years, starting with cutouts and swarms, having over 100 colonies at one point.

I've never bought a bee, and never treated or mollycoddled in any manner. I've understood how natural selection for the fittest strains works for over 50 years. I understand predator-prey co-evolution, the 'arms race'. Last year and the year before I baited about about 15 swarms, 30 in all.

Don't be thinking you are talking to somebody who doesn't know his way around the subject.

You and all like you are invaluable to guide and teach on the way to what ultimately will be the only option imo

 

[Erichalfbee]

Maybe, but it will give a licence to others...

I made it in good faith in response to

How do you all feel about this?

So it stays. Nobody else is making a fuss about it.

 

[Beesnaturally]

And the bait you prefer ?

Good quality pheromone, though it's not the sole consideration. I buy mine from Thornes. If they do more than one by the most expensive.

 

[Penninetrader]

Good quality pheromone, though it's not the sole consideration. I buy mine from Thornes. If they do more than one by the most expensive.

In the proof of the pudding stakes I will take your advice

 

[Beesnaturally]

In the proof of the pudding stakes I will take your advice

I'll tell you how I make up and place my baits if you ask in the new year.