Technique removing first frame when inspecting

[rbaz]

What do you all do with the super and first frame you remove from the hive?
Previously I haven’t had a problem as the super has been empty and outer two frames have never had that many bees on so easily shaken off but my inspection yesterday was completely different.
All frames now completely covered in bees in the BB and a fair amount in the super starting to draw it out. I removed an outer frame and placed it on the ground over the lid next to the super. After a few minutes the bees on the frame went crazy loudly buzzing away which made the inspection difficult as it alerted the rest of the colony which made me a little nervous, hot and sweaty which made it worse. Half way through the inspection I gave up and retreated. I wasn't stung but have never seen them that aggressive (apart from the day they arrived) pinging at my face, hands and hive tool. I know it’s my fault but what can I do to make it easier.
Should I have shaken them off the frame first? I don’t like doing this as it also gets them going.
Really appreciate your experienced advice.

 

[Busybee123]

I see you are using Dadant hives, so I don't know what your setup is, but for me, I have 11 frames + a dummy board in a National brood chamber. When I open the hive up I remove the dummy and place it to one side of the hive - this gives me enough room to manipulate the other frames.

However I recently bought one of those little frame holders that hook on to the top of the brood chamber. Now I can hang the dummy board on that, and put a second frame on it as well (in behind the dummy) if I need more room. Only problem is that you can easily end up leaning against the frames which are hanging on the frame holder when you are working your way through the brood chamber (especially if like me you're not quite as slim as you once were )

 

[Chris Luck]

Simple answer, I don't do it for two reasons.

1. I no longer inspect unless I suspect there is a problem - that would be rare throughout summer if at all.

2. Dadant supers are too heavy to keep moving when loaded and the first frame in the Brood is very difficult to get in and out with a strong colony without rolling large masses of bees.

Otherwise I put the super(s) on a flat barrow and prop / lean the first removed frame against them.

Chris

 

[oliver90owner]

What do you all do with the super ... you remove from the hive?

I stand it diagonally across the upturned roof.

What do you all do with the ... first frame you remove from the hive?

At this time of the year, robbing interest can arise very quickly and I often carefully lay it across the top of the brood box.

If you have a dummy board to remove first it becomes less 'bees in the air' when they can be shaken off while still mainly in the hive.

Regards, RAB

 

[tonybloke]

Hi, most folk put the roof ( Upside-down) on the ground in front of the hive ( assuming you are standing to the side of the hive) on this you place the super/s slightly on the skew. returning bees have got somewhere to go whilst you inspect the brood box

I have a 'dummy board' in all of my colonies, this is removed first, and leant up against the hive. the next frame, if it is stores, with no eggs/brood, is laid across the frames in the brood box so that 1/2 of the bees are kept in the dark whilst I inspect. move this frame to suit.

 

[warts]

Not sure if it is the best approach, but works for me...I was taught to gently rest the first frame (after checking the Q isn't on it) across the top of the BB, the lugs of the frame towards you and these lugs keep the frame from squashing the bees, if rested gently. This I was told, would a) give me more space to look through the hive, and b) keep heat in BB and keep it darker. However, I also keep a spare nuc next to the hive, and sometimes pop the first couple of frames in there (wasn't taught this, but sometimes easier). Never had mine get too unhappy at being moved aside for a short period of time...so not sure how useful this answer is. I am sure a more expert answer will arrive (and I can check to ensure I am not doing anything detrimental at the same time)

Sally

OK now seen that expert answers have arrived before my post...so please ignore

 

[Poly Hive]

I lift off the super/s lay them as Rab says on the upturned roof and if you are bothered by them then put the CB on top?

I work out the first frame, check for queen, and prop it next to the entrance where the bees quickly cover any brood and it keeps them out the way too.

I am not saying this is text book but it is what I do.

PH

 

[MJBee]

I remove the roof and place it upside down next to the hive. The super(s) and crown board are then removed and placed on the roof. The first frame in the brood box is then removed - as it usually contains stores it is unlikely that the queen will be on it but check carefully anyway - it is propped against the hive. The rest of the frames are checked as necessary then the "first" frame is replaced at the end. At the next inspection I start at the other end so that the "first" frame finishes up where it was. As a reminder all my "first" frames are marked with a drawing pin

PS where are you in France? department and post code would help give advice tailored to climate

 

[enrico]

I take the roof off and put it the right way up on a prepared surface (Flat roof) then I put the supers on this and always move the crown board onto the top of the supers. That keeps them trapped in the supers and quiet. When I get to the brood I do the same as Warts. Take out one end frame and with the top bar towards you cover the next five frames with it. It is usually a food frame and the bees start feeding on it. I then inspect the open five frames as I now have room to move them, I put them back in the hive starting at the point I took the end frame out i.e. moving them all along one slot. I then move the flat frame over the other remaining frames and go through the last brood frames. I then add the original frame I took out at the other end of the brood box! Replace the supers, if these are being glued to the frames below I turn them through 90 degrees (Makes no difference to the bees) and put it all back together. Never fails me.
E

 

[Nightynight]

I kept the original nuc box I got the bees in... put first couple of frame into that normally which means I can flip the lid down and the bees on the frame are trapped, which can be useful when dealing with massive summer colonies

Putting the frame to one side I found all the flyer launch to bang around your head or trying to fly back into the open hive landing just where you're trying to put your fingers or hive tool

 

[rbaz]

I use a 10 frame BB Dadant hive (think BB frames are same size as a Jumbo Langstroth) but have an insulated pitched roof making standing things on it difficult but could make a spare crown board to rest on.

I also find crushing can be a problem with these hives. Spacers not ideal.
As said maybe I should replace one of the end frames with a dummy board to make this easier. I didn't want to reduce the frame area but it may be more productive to do so but I do have a large landing board on the entrance so might be worth placing the frame on that see how they react.

Thanks for the advice

 

[rbaz]

PS where are you in France? department and post code would help give advice tailored to climate

Deparment 29 29270 central Brittany

 

[Chris Luck]

If you are concerned about loosing space with a dummy board you could move on to a 12 frame Dadant and even have one each end, that should do the trick.

Chris

 

[BILL.HEARD]

I lift off the super/s lay them as Rab says on the upturned roof and if you are bothered by them then put the CB on top?

I work out the first frame, check for queen, and prop it next to the entrance where the bees quickly cover any brood and it keeps them out the way too.

I am not saying this is text book but it is what I do.

PH

 

[Hebeegeebee]

Hi, most folk put the roof ( Upside-down) on the ground in front of the hive ( assuming you are standing to the side of the hive) on this you place the super/s slightly on the skew. returning bees have got somewhere to go whilst you inspect the brood box

I have a 'dummy board' in all of my colonies, this is removed first, and leant up against the hive. the next frame, if it is stores, with no eggs/brood, is laid across the frames in the brood box so that 1/2 of the bees are kept in the dark whilst I inspect. move this frame to suit.

That's the way to do it.


The problem with the very nice looking pitched roof on single walled hives is that it is no use for putting brood boxes or supers on when its upside down as they fall off! A flat roof is much more practical. What about WBC's? Well there are the lifts to put the boxes on.

A top bee space Dadant makes the problem worse as bees will get squashed more easily.

Tony - do you have a problem as you are top bee space kinda guy?

 

[Dishmop]

I kept the original nuc box I got the bees in..

Sounds the most logical thing to me, and its got a lid.

 

[tonybloke]

A top bee space Dadant makes the problem worse as bees will get squashed more easily.

Tony - do you have a problem as you are top bee space kinda guy?

not sure I know where the possible problem may be?
as I lay the supers onto the up-turned roof, there are 4 points of contact, same as a bottom bee space set-up?

 

[Illo]

I have a pitched roof (less tempting for cats to sit up...) and use this upturned to put supers in. Not perfect, but it works. I pop the crown board back on the top - keeps bees happy and contained. You could prop the roof up on something to stop it tipping if that is a problem?

I made a box from marine ply that's the same length as the side of the hive, wide enough (about 3.5 inches) to hold a couple of frames of bees and deep enough that it holds my 14x12 BB frames. It has two cup hooks into a slightly thicker bar at the top, and hooks onto the side of the hive, so it is between me and the hive during inspection. First one, or sometimes two frames go in the box. This keeps bees comfy and in the dark, and happy. Meanwhile frees up enough space to extract the remaining frames easily without rolling any bees. It is a trick I learned from our beekeeping tutor, and is super. A master joiner I am not, but it does the trick.

I also have one of the metal frame racks, but this is completely open. It's useful for frames with no bees, such as when there are a few undrawn frames in the BB, but doesn't work so well whenthe BB is full; the bees fly off too readily and try to get back into the hive, generally get in the way, and tend to end up where you least want them!

hope this helps,

LJ.

 

[madasafish]

With TBHs and frameless combs, I use a hive stand.. otherwise comb collapse...

When on nationals, a 2 frame box (as a nuc but 2 frames.). and stand them in there out of the way...
Don't inspect warres.. tried once.. OOOPS!

 

[Headnavigator]

OK now seen that expert answers have arrived before my post...so please ignore

What's this 'ignore' bit? No! Nothing wrong with your post.
I also started with an empty Nuc to one side - makes sense. Then got a 'travelling box' (c/w British Rail 'Livestock' label) at our local auction, it holds a dozen frames and is always handy to have by the hives during an inspection to hold a couple of spare dummy boards, spare frame, and I can put either the first frame or any other I might want to look at carefully in there for a few moments - there is even a ventilated lid so can close it up if I want to. Handy thing to have.