Talk by Clive De Bruyne

[BKF Admin]

I attended a talk at the weekend by Clive De Bruyne, that man is the Bill Shankly of beekeeping! Are there many more experienced beekeepers alive in the world today?

A couple of interesting points he made:

When clipping Queens should you clip both wings rather than just the one? As he has a theory that a single clipped wing could cause the queen to be off balance bringing on an early supercedure?

Another point he made was that when learning to clip queen’s start with drones but then move on to workers, when you can safely clip workers without being stung it’s only then time to start your queen clipping.

P.s: He said don’t forget to dispatch your drones after clipping as it’s a little cruel to leave drones flightless.

Your thoughts on the points above?

 

[hedgerow pete]

sorry evryone but i am part of the We love Clive DE Bruyne fan club , were every one has ted hooper at home i dont i have clive, i have never had the chance to chat to him but have heard several talks, very good instructor

 

[buzz]

Admin

I was at the same presentation and agree with all you say. A very good convention, well done the organisers.

As a newbee, I found Clive's talk fascinating - a shame it couldnt have been scheduled for longer.

I was particularly impressed with his fulsome praise for other beekeepers - Ted Hooper et al.

Clive promised to cover internet sources of bee info, both the good and bad. he ran out of time... do you know if he rates this forum

 

[Finman]

.
If you clip both wing tips, the queen is able to fly.

I read that don't clip the wing too much because the wing has blood circulation and nerves. (by Susan Colby?)

 

[Heather]

I did the queen rearing course taken by Clive at Stoneleigh last year. It was excellent, and although i had read quite a bit beforehand- to have hands on teaching is so much better.
But, Clive, if you come onto this forum, - you did say you would follow up every student from that course (took our email addresses) to see how they managed, and if they needed further advice- still waiting

 

[hedgerow pete]

can i just point out to finman that in theroy yes the queen can fly with both wings clipped. but i have found if you do around one thrid offthe wings. the weight to wing ratio is wrong and as most queens have to lower thier weight before swarming to be able to fly this easily counters this idea of flight

 

[Poly Hive]

With the greatest of respect to Clive, why practise on workers which WILL sting if handled so. I cannot get my head round that one.

Practise on drones which will twist as Queens do. Then kill them.

Please remember, before clipping a Queen, and I only clip one side, get the scissor jaws ready then PAUSE before the closure as then is when her leg will come up and get cut off and supercedure is near assured.

PH

 

[BKF Admin]

PH have you had many queens that have gone catatonic when clipped?
I have had one,I thought the shock had killed her in my hand.

I popped her back in the hive with my fingers crossed only to find she was fine a week later.

It was not until a few months later reading a queen rearing book that it mentioned how a queen can suddenly keel over only to recover when put back in the hive.

I was so cross at the time thinking I had killed a good queen.

 

[VEG]

Admin would you not go into shock if you had some bits cut off

 

[Heather]

Veg, how long are your toe nails???

 

[Finman]

can i just point out to finman that in theroy yes the queen can fly

It is not a theory. I have seen how it flyes with cutted wings. Queen has very strong muscles and often it is very thin when it swarms.

 

[Finman]

.
I have clipped queen wings 45 years and I can see nothing special in that procedure. It is just over estimated.

In Finland perhaps 10% of beekeepers cut the wing.

In queen rearing I cannot see either any glorious. It is just rearing but interesting to see, wahat are new queen from the new queen mother.

 

[Poly Hive]

To be honest Admin, the answer to that one is NO. Never.

PH

 

[Floss]

Er...can I just ask ....given the "theories" about bees' responses to stress whether it be due to clumsy handling or transporting 1000's of miles to pollinate the orchards of the US does'nt it upset them having their wings cut off? Could this distress (ie trying to do what comes natural such as fly...) be communicated to the rest of the hive?

I am constantly reminded that bees are sensitive and inteligent creatures and react to stress!

Just wondered...? Floss

 

[VEG]

Floss you will get beekeepers for and against clipping. When a wing is cut there is some "bleeding" that occurs so IMO it must cause some stress/pain to the bee. I dont clip wings for this reason. Sometimes clipped queens are superceeded by the bees.

 

[Finman]

Sometimes clipped queens are superceeded by the bees.

That is my opinion too.

In early years I lost queens in winter when clipped queens in summer.

Then I started to clip them before swarming season. I did not loose any queens after that.

I can see, that my hives supercede quite much one year old queens in July, and I have thought that the cause is clipping.

****************

I do not ask´what they feel. They either ask to how I feel when they sting me.

**************

 

[Finman]

I am constantly reminded that bees are sensitive and inteligent creatures and react to stress!

What then? That is why they try to sting me.

 

[beebreeder]

We have found when marking queens at the start of the season (autumn supercedures) if multiple queens are to be marked and you are working bare handed, wash hands very thouroughly as pheremone can be transfered, we found out the hard way, we marked and clipped the first queen and closed the colony, on going to the second colony the queen was found, clipped and marked and upon release to her colony they promptly killed her on the top bars in front of our eyes, we think we had transfered pheremo
ne from queen one to queen two and the workers treated her as invader. Be careful.

 

[BKF Admin]

I notice you say returned her to the topbars.
Do you think that not placing her on a comb with eggs may of caused them to wonder why she was not in a place they would expect to find her,I have made that mistake before,hence why I ask.

 

[johna]

I've known Clive for some 30 years and met up with him recently when he was the touring speaker for the Scottish Beekeepers Association.He honoured us ( the Western Galloway Beekeepers Ass'n) with the first of his lectures--"the joy of queen rearing".I worked with Clive at Luddington when he set up the bee unit there.I was studying for my senior exam and was allowed to help identifying bee diseases on combs sent in for analysis.In my opinion Clive is one of the leading experts on pretty well all aspects of beekeeping.