Swienty vs Abelo poly

[Swarm]

If you remove the runners it becomes top bee space. It's what I did to avoid crushing bees.

 

[Madge]

... what happens if you leave the runners out and varnish the ledge the frames sit on ? ...

I think some people do leave out the runners. Then you’re back to Swienty number 1, and have to check not to squash bees underneath the lugs. You won’t need to varnish or paint the ledge.

 

[SWEET]

Seems strange they went to the effort of adding the runner recess then made the inserts to big ha!

 

[Angry_Mob]

Seems strange they went to the effort of adding the runner recess then made the inserts to big ha!

Makes them easier to latch into with your hive tool?

 

[Erichalfbee]

If you remove the runners it becomes top bee space. It's what I did to avoid crushing bees.

I tried that for two seasons. I have now put the runners back in and glued an eke permanently to the top to maintain the top space. I still love the boxes though

 

[fatshark]

We're talking about the space directly above the lugs - so, below the wall of the box above it. Unless they've redesigned Swienty again, there is no space above the lugs with the plastic rails in place. See photos of the original Swienty and the new Swienty.

View attachment 15407 View attachment 15408

I think the problem is with the bottom of the box, not the top. A bottom bee space National box is not supposed to have space above the top of the lugs and below the lip of the box AFAIK ... quote from Cushman "The frames in a beehive are shorter than the box they fit in by a "bee space". If the frames are level with the top of the box and the bee space is under the frames this is termed "Bottom Bee Space" (BBS). If the frames are level with the bottom of the box and the bee space is at the top it is termed "Top Bee Space" (TBS).".

The bottom of the Swienty box has no recess cut into the sidewalls that would provide the space over the tops of the lugs ... hence they get proposed in.

I'm not denying there's a problem with this design.

When I use the Swienty boxes and have to go to double brood I use a cedar box on top.

 

[Swarm]

I think the problem is with the bottom of the box, not the top. A bottom bee space National box is not supposed to have space above the top of the lugs and below the lip of the box AFAIK ... quote from Cushman "The frames in a beehive are shorter than the box they fit in by a "bee space". If the frames are level with the top of the box and the bee space is under the frames this is termed "Bottom Bee Space" (BBS). If the frames are level with the bottom of the box and the bee space is at the top it is termed "Top Bee Space" (TBS).".

The bottom of the Swienty box has no recess cut into the sidewalls that would provide the space over the tops of the lugs ... hence they get proposed in.

I'm not denying there's a problem with this design.

When I use the Swienty boxes and have to go to double brood I use a cedar box on top.

Exactly, it's a design fault. I dare say less of an issue if using 14x12 and as Erichalfbee above, I'm fed up with running no rails.
Could have done better comes to mind with the newer design, there's a lot of poly that's been shaved off.

 

[Erichalfbee]

Yes we need a top space poly National but I bet we won’t ever get one because Lang’s are top space

 

[SWEET]

I think some people do leave out the runners. Then you’re back to Swienty number 1, and have to check not to squash bees underneath the lugs. You won’t need to varnish or paint the ledge.

I think I’ll use without the runners , it’ll be far easier not to crush bees with frames than dropping a heavy box atop them .

 

[Beefriendly]

Use a wooden framed qx that gives you top bee space on any national.

 

[Swarm]

It does, but it won't help with double brood.

 

[Beefriendly]

The bottom bee space on the bottom of the top box acts as the "top" bee space for the box underneath.
Works on all my double brood hives. They never get "stuck" together.

 

[Swarm]

The bottom bee space on the bottom of the top box acts as the "top" bee space for the box underneath.
Works on all my double brood hives. They never get "stuck" together.

There is no bottom bee space rebated into the moulding, the bottom of these boxes is just flat and therefore sits directly onto the lugs of the lower frames. This is what we are on about, if the rebate was there they would work perfectly well.

 

[Beefriendly]

There is no bottom bee space rebated into the moulding, the bottom of these boxes is just flat and therefore sits directly onto the lugs of the lower frames. This is what we are on about, if the rebate was there they would work perfectly well.

I see...but now confused over whose moldings we are talking about. Swientys?

 

[maddydog]

There is no bottom bee space rebated into the moulding, the bottom of these boxes is just flat and therefore sits directly onto the lugs of the lower frames. This is what we are on about, if the rebate was there they would work perfectly well.

Ahhh get you now My swientys are 14x12 and my shallows are cedar so it's not an issue but I can see double national deeps being a problem.

Those who remove the rails do they not have an issue with the frames getting propolised?

 

[SWEET]

Before i paint this hive , are people painting the interface top/bottom ? or just leaving untouched . I'm going to varnish the frame step as leaving runners out.

cheers

 

[Madge]

Before i paint this hive , are people painting the interface top/bottom ? or just leaving untouched . I'm going to varnish the frame step as leaving runners out.



cheers

I’ve stopped painting the top and bottom touching surfaces. They sometimes stick together if painted - initially, anyway. Also, as I’ve said before, there’s no need to paint or varnish the frame rest.

 

[SWEET]

Thanks for that , yes i spotted the varnish comment but i'm not running the runners so was concerned bees will chew this area .

 

[Madge]

Thanks for that , yes i spotted the varnish comment but i'm not running the runners so was concerned bees will chew this area .

You don’t need to varnish the lug platforms. I’ve used the old style Swienties (so, without lug risers) without varnishing or painting them.

 

[SWEET]

Great thanks ; only what i'd read people were doing on other boards . Rather avoid as plenty on my plate as it is.