"Survivor bees" found in Blenheim Forest

[Erichalfbee]

Quite a few people who are fans of our native bee rounded on a forum member who has spent his beekeeping life trying to improve a bee that’s not Amm. I deleted countless posts.
At least that won’t happen again.

 

[Jimmy]

At least that won’t happen again.

He no longer posts on the forum though?

 

[Erichalfbee]

No he left.

 

[Martinreed]

I have to say that, as a total newbe to this forum I am really disappointed at the volume of off-topic and personal slagging off that takes place. It's totally offputting and I'm sure is keeping a lot of novice keepers from even asking questions. A few regulars here may actually know each other and their 'banter' may be otherwise good natured, but it doesn't read like that to the uninitiated. It reads as unmasked agression.
Posting an alternative view or additional information on a topic is not 'trolling' or belittling. But responding to someone's view with a slag-off retort about that person's outlook, background, previously discussed beliefs or ethics is not debate. The whole tone of some of these discussions is unnecessarily confrontational.
In my limited experiences on other forums and in actual meetings at shows and with the home association I have found fellow beekeepers to be really generous with sharing experiences and accepting that there are many, many ways to skin a beehive. Most of us (I would say 'ALL') are still learning. Climatic conditions are in flux. There are new disease threats in the wind. The experts are trialling all sorts of approaches to management of everything. Our scientific knowledge has advanced at startling speed in recent decades and even the last few years - and even with those advances of understanding the scientists will rarely give an absolute opinion; they know too much of how much there is still to understand.
I signed up on someone's recommendation. Upon signing up I was immediately 'invited' to pay a subscription. I'm afraid that the general tone of this forum is leading me to the conclusion that I won't be renewing that subscription next year - and I'm sorry I took out the year's option rather than the monthly one.

Couldn't agree more

 

[Finman]

Is it so that Bumbling keeper wants alternative truths to the forum?

I have seen that term somewhere.

 

[Bumbling Keeper]

That's not the forum that I recognise... there are differences of opinion and a few zealots around that have very strong views but it's a very large and broad church and you would expect that. I find it a forum where help and advice is given freely ... and there are some very knowledgeable beekeepers on here who are both innovative and practical. Yes you are invited to subscribe but you don't have to .. its a small price to pat for a few advantages in terms of being advert free. There is a beginners section which is more heavily moderated than other parts of the forum to ensure beginners have a section where they are protected from the occasional rough and tumble of the main forum. It's assumed that if you play in the main forum that you are able to sort out what you want to read ... without mods removing or editing posts. We don't tolerate personal attacks or comments or anything that would bring disrepute to the forum but humour and banter has always been a characteristic of the place and you can either take it or leave it and move on to another post/thread. We don't want a stale, moribund forum ...this one has life and vitality .. stick around and look a bit further and you may start to agree ... if not there are other places but few that have what is on offer here.

Thanks for that. I immediately decided to pay the subscription because I feel that there is a lot of free stuff on the internet, but it does actually cost someone to put it there, and running a forum is going to be keeping someone very busy.
Perhaps I have slipped into an unfortunately 'rough' discussion as a first foray, but some of the responses to clearly measured and caveated posts have been needlessly agressive. I've already stuck one guy on my 'ignore' list. The guy was exhibiting a truly ignorant outlook and after the crap our Country has had to endure isince 2016 thanks to the fostering of misinformation and promotion of ignorant biggotry I have no tolerance for it any more.
I should add that I've had a couple of responses from others who agree with me on this. I will be sticking around - because I've paid for it. I don't pay to be treated like a moron though and won't sit around while people behave like children in a schoolyard. It's time that the bully culture that's been quietly taking over the Western World was pushed back and that starts with us not tolerating it. We've got the same thing going on in our Allotment Association. Our time is too short now and humanity has got to start finding common ground and working towards our salvation together.

 

[Bumbling Keeper]

The issue many take is that there are too many 'I've had black bees' comments based solely on bees looking dark when genetic analysis has shown that most are mongrels and phenotype (looking dark) is not an accurate indicator of purity of genotype. To consider them AMM/black bees is conjecture and not scientifically sound yet often those making such claims claim they are/demand others meet scientific criteria. Some on the forum have come across this conjecture many many times. In the short time I've been on here I can think of at least three or four broadly similar discussions.

I look forward to seeing whatever data @Apiarist is working on.

My initial interest in this discussion was really very light. I'm not an advocate of any particular type of bee - I don't know how we could guarrantee a pure breed now anyway. I simply expressed an interest in finding out what the 'Blenheim bees' will actually turn out to be and if they do turn out to be a subspecies with qualities that have helped them survive then presumably that would be to the good. The issue with imports for me is disease spread and the less we move stuff around the less chance there is of importing disease.

 

[Finman]

'Blenheim bees' will actually turn out to be and if they do turn out to be a subspecies with qualities that have helped them survive then presumably that would be to the good.

Perhaps Blenheim will sell to you couple of hives and you may reseach them at home.

As you noticed, there are two professors as a friend at Blenheim. They have revieled allready many things from bees.

 

[pargyle]

My initial interest in this discussion was really very light. I'm not an advocate of any particular type of bee - I don't know how we could guarrantee a pure breed now anyway. I simply expressed an interest in finding out what the 'Blenheim bees' will actually turn out to be and if they do turn out to be a subspecies with qualities that have helped them survive then presumably that would be to the good. The issue with imports for me is disease spread and the less we move stuff around the less chance there is of importing disease.

You stumbled into a black hole with this thread I'm afraid... one of the most contentious issues amongst beekeepers is (and probably always will be) the issue(s) of the various flavours of bee that are available in the UK ... it varies from those zealots who will brook no other race of bee other than black AMM through to those zealots who will only consider imports of intensively engineered superbees ... and all of us in the middle who are just grateful that we have bees that are not trying to kill us and give us a honey crop and survive from one season to the next.

We don't tolerate bullying to any extent in here but it's a platform for robust discussion and things sometimes reach a pitch where those who arrive fresh to the fold may find things on the face of it abrasive. As I said ... stick around and you will see much better examples of the generally good natured and generous members on here.

The ignore button is always a last resort and if you feel a post is genuinely outside of the forum ethos you are at liberty to hit the report post button... all reported posts are looked at and assessed...and if it is deemed appropriate will be edited and/or deleted. Members are rarely banned but there is that censure available for people who continually flout the forum rules ... which are very few but are maintained.

 

[Swarm]

Quite a few people who are fans of our native bee rounded on a forum member who has spent his beekeeping life trying to improve a bee that’s not Amm. I deleted countless posts.
At least that won’t happen again.

Which thread was that? I remember a thread where two forum members made particularly nasty remarks about a book another forum member had written.

 

[Jimmy]

Which thread was that? I remember a thread where two forum members made particularly nasty remarks about a book another forum member had written.

I assumed it was referring to B+ who is a A.m. carnica breeder in the UK.

 

[Finman]

After funny beginning of this thread inquisition is now moving. Somebody must be quilty. Any volunteers?

 

[Erichalfbee]

I assumed it was referring to B+ who is a A.m. carnica breeder in the UK.

It was.

 

[Swarm]

He was one of them, is that the thread?

 

[Erichalfbee]

Plenty of reported posts

 

[pargyle]

Which thread was that? I remember a thread where two forum members made particularly nasty remarks about a book another forum member had written.

New Import rules Post #47 .... if you really want to drag up the past ...

 

[Swarm]

I've a good memory Phil, I can remember that thread but there was another thread prior to that one where posts were deleted as well. It was basically the other side of the coin.

 

[Wilco]

My initial interest in this discussion was really very light. I'm not an advocate of any particular type of bee - I don't know how we could guarrantee a pure breed now anyway. I simply expressed an interest in finding out what the 'Blenheim bees' will actually turn out to be and if they do turn out to be a subspecies with qualities that have helped them survive then presumably that would be to the good. The issue with imports for me is disease spread and the less we move stuff around the less chance there is of importing disease.

Part of what your seeing is linked to a wider context. Many of the arguments have been put forward by either side in different ways in previous discussions. It's a bit like joining an argument halfway through where both sides are just repeatedly saying what they've previously said in different ways.

I think the broad summary for the Blenheim bees is that a degree of skepticism (edit: did no one get this or is it just not funny?) would be advisable based on the available evidence, let alone factoring the rather suspicious erasing of their digital footprint by the person pushing the idea.

In terms of imports, agree WRT imported disease but on the flip side it's interesting that AMM is frequently specified by some on here as prone to some brood diseases. As @pargyle likes to say, pay your money and make your choice. Or as one of my lecturers put it, decide what you want to die from and live accordingly.

 

[Finman]

I think the broad summary for the Blenheim bees is that a degree of skeptisicm would be advisable based on the available evidence, let alone factoring the rather suspicious erasing of their digital footprint by the person pushing the idea.

What what what

Sharp summary is, the Blenheim bee story was only one advertising campaign among others. Not as good as Log Nessis monster, but quite near.

There are many other stories about Blenheim bees on previous years. But suddenly last summer they noticed bees in tree holes, own Blenheim bee race in the isolated ancient oak forest. Very black bee.

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

as one of my lecturers put it, decide what you want to die from and live accordingly.

I couldn't make my mind out so I chose more than one option just to confuse the grim reaper.
Also managed to avoid more than one knife wound to the back