"Survivor bees" found in Blenheim Forest

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If we could reach him in a more protected manner we might learn more.
Messenger?
Some people actually do reply to messages out of the blue.

Actually quite a few people asked him on a webinar he spoke at. It was all quite civilised, just devoid of any answers. We did discover though, that Filipe likes to climb trees
 
" In Britain, where most bees are imports found in managed hives, it is estimated that one-third of the wild population has disappeared over recent decades, decimated in particular by the varroa mite.

The Blenheim bees appear unaffected by this, leading Salbany to suspect they have evolved to live with the parasite, among other adaptations.

Blenheim, home to a World Heritage Site palace and centuries of heritage, boasts the biggest collection of ancient oak trees in Europe in its thousands of acres (hectares) of largely untouched woodlands.

With large tracts off-limits to the public, and no managed hives or agricultural production using pesticides on-site, it has provided the perfect environment for the ecotype."

Can we all see how that fits the Darwinian and breeder conditions? Isolation, not from varroa, but from bee genes - from ecotypes lacking the specific programming for managing varroa? The population has, free from beekeepers' bees, simply raised those characters through natural selection.

It is, in my view, unlikely that this has much to do with native dark bees - though if beekeepers have been kept out since they were around, and if there are sufficient nesting sites for a good number of colonies (Filipe estimates 500) it is entirely plausible that high levels of the native dna survives.

But it will be the isolation, not the ecotype that has enables them to overcome the new parasite. Any local strain can - in a sufficient population - raise such defences. That has been scientifically demonstrated by Marla Spivak.
 
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Messenger?
Some people actually do reply to messages out of the blue.

Actually quite a few people asked him on a webinar he spoke at. It was all quite civilised, just devoid of any answers. We did discover though, that Filipe likes to climb trees
Yes, found him, written.
 
Well, Beesnaturally started the chain from very beginning. And he believes that the story is true.

He says "untouched woodlands thousands of years old".

In the picture "untouched forest of Blenheim". Somebody has clipped the lawn.

Screenshot_20220327-155739_Google.jpg
 
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it simply infuriates me that the subject has been put in the public domain and then effectively closed down
Usual tactics with that mob - they will not be challenged or accept they are wrong.
 
Usual tactics with that mob - they will not be challenged or accept they are wrong.

'That mob' being the scientists? Who exactly do you include in 'that mob'?

Is it everyone not in your mob? (the mob composed of people who can pretend to understand science, and probably think they do, but don't understand enough to comprehend the fundamentals underlying either science or the life sciences in particular? Ditto genetic husbandry? The mob that works hard to shut down any threats to their own deeply limited mindset?)
 
In Finland ancient forest looks like this. Perhaps under 200 years old.

View attachment 31089
I agree, yours is a much richer habitat, and Blenheim (at least what is shown in the picture) is not forest, not natural, and very limited in terms of biodiversity.

What it probably does have however is lots of tree cavities.
 
'That mob' being the scientists? Who exactly do you include in 'that mob'?

Is it everyone not in your mob? (the mob composed of people who can pretend to understand science, and probably think they do, but don't understand enough to comprehend the fundamentals underlying either science or the life sciences in particular? Ditto genetic husbandry? The mob that works hard to shut down any threats to their own deeply limited mindset?)
I thought you didn't believe in ad hominem attacks?
 
I don't pretend to understand science.
I am just an elderly beekeeper who is cynical about people who make claims,but when asked to justify their claims either lie or fall silent. Experience from life tells me that refusal to back up claims with hard facts is the unequivocal practise of charlatans.

See also politicians of all countries and persuasions.
 
But it will be the isolation, not the ecotype that has enables them to overcome the new parasite. Any local strain can - in a sufficient population - raise such defences. That has been scientifically demonstrated by Marla Spivak.

Marla Spivak has told 10 years about bees' decline, but I do not know any demonstration, how dhe has succeeded to stop bees' declining with her knowledge.

I do not know any isolation research, where Sparla Spivak has proved, where isolation works.

Finally, where is the place the UK, where isolation is enough, that bees' own evolution can overcome varroa.

,....... these are mere hopefull speaking. No facts behid it. ... except Kent and Blenheim palace park. Boath very isolated places.
 
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I thought you didn't believe in ad hominem attacks?
People who make ad hom attacks deserve them back.

But the questions are the important thing. Here they are again. Look out for the ?s:

'That mob' being the scientists? Who exactly do you include in 'that mob'?

Is it everyone not in your mob? (the mob composed of people who can pretend to understand science, and probably think they do, but don't understand enough to comprehend the fundamentals underlying either science or the life sciences in particular? Ditto genetic husbandry? The mob that works hard to shut down any threats to their own deeply limited mindset?)
 
I don't pretend to understand science.
I am just an elderly beekeeper who is cynical about people who make claims,but when asked to justify their claims either lie or fall silent. Experience from life tells me that refusal to back up claims with hard facts is the unequivocal practise of charlatans.
Do you have anybody in mind?
 
Marla Spivak has told 10 years about bees' decline, but I do not know any demontration, howshe has succeeded to stop declining with her knowledge.

'Stop declining'? Doesn't make any sense I'm afraid.

I do not know any isolation reseach, where Sparla Spivak has proved, where isolation works.

There is a universal rule: you have look first. Holding your hands over your eyes and then claiming you can't see anything is.... well it doesn't impress, lets leave it at that.

I can help you look. This took me about 5 seconds. It will lead you those things you've aven't yet seen concerning Marla Spivak.. I'm afaid yu will have to study if you want to understand:


Finally, where is the place the UK, where isolation is enough, that bees' own evolution can overcome varroa.

Do you understand what a binary choice is?

Can you understand if I say something is not a binary choice?

When you can answer yes to both those questions, let me know and I'll explain to you why that statement is misconceived.
 
A condescending superior tone is not helpful. All it does is aggravate the situation. Something, as a psychologist, I’m sure you are aware of.
If there are no objections it might be timely to close this thread then you can start a blog where you can discuss this with like minded beekeepers without having continually to teach others a lesson.
Does that sound fair?
 
'Stop declining'? Doesn't make any sense I'm afraid.



There is a universal rule: you have look first. Holding your hands over your eyes and then claiming you can't see anything is.... well it doesn't impress, lets leave it at that.

I can help you look. This took me about 5 seconds.

I can tell to you, that I have got scientific education in biology in Helsinki university. I have nothing to learn from you.

You try to teach me, how to cover eys with fingers, and they bend the finger off.
I think that my mother teached that under the age of one year (1 y).

Mr Naturally. You should learn first to discuss like human adult to human adult.
 

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