Supplying honey in bulk ?

[Speybee]

Polish honey is good; but we buy it from the Polish shelves in Tesco...they call it Miod.
I don't think any of this is new; long before even thinking of becoming a beekeeper there were tales of people buying really cheap Tesco or Lidl honey (mind you Lidl's isn't bad) and relabelling it as local honey.

Off topic the Polish Wee thin dried pasta make great home made Chicken noodle soup

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

What bit is duff?

Don't you actually red the posts you comment on?

https://labellingtraining.food.gov.uk/module8/overview_1.htmlThe 'country of origin' is the country from which the product was wholly obtained or, if production involved more than one country, the country where the product last underwent substantial, economically justified processing.

None of that applies to honey as was pointed out a few posts later

Irrespective of the content of FSA e-courses, there is a Statutory Instrument which applies in this case, the Honey (Scotland) Regulations 2015, of which Article 16 States:
"No person may trade in honey unless the country or countries of origin where the honey has been harvested is indicated on the label..."

(An identical clause also applies in England, but since the poster reported this in Fife, I am assuming it is believed to be happening in Scotland).

So the practice as described above is not legitimate unless they state the countries (or the "EU" bit as currently allowed). There is no definition of "Local" within the labelling regulations.

(Or perhaps they are bringing whole hives over in suitcases and harvesting "locally"?)

 

[Speybee]

Don't you actually red the posts you comment on?

None of that applies to honey as was pointed out a few posts later

Of course I read the posts I comment on.
I was commenting to your post based on the link posted by Ericbeaumont as it appears that what is happening in Fife seems to be following the last 4 phrases.
Some later posters, appear to have a more open interpretation of the word ‘Local’.
Another poster has indicated the word Local has no legal standing.
The forum is divided it appears.
Those of us such as myself who think this is ‘honey laundering’ and others who think it’s within the law.

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

Of course I read the posts I comment on.
I was commenting to your post based on the link posted by Ericbeaumont as it appears that what is happening in Fife seems to be following the last 4 phrases.

But it doesn't matter - as Eric's quote was refering to other food products not honey (although he didn't seem to be aware of that I grant you)

 

[Erichalfbee]

I have been asked by a seller of honey would I be interested in selling all my honey in bulk ,
As I am very busy in work I would prefer to off load my honey in one go as it would cut out the hassle of jarring and dropping off to people and shops ect ,
He asked me to come back to him with a price per pound,what would be a fair percentage for both parties. a jar of summer and spring honey supplied to shops here is usually around €9.00 a pound .

Can I remind everybody here of the first post in the thread?
Im sure the poor chap has run away with his head in his hands at what you’ve done with his simple question.

 

[Speybee]

But it doesn't matter - as Eric's quote was refering to other food products not honey (although he didn't seem to be aware of that I grant you)

Apologies for replying in Stots and Bangs.
Been going through one wee bell at a time as multitasking in between
following the thread and making several jars of Crab Apple jelly and Rowan Jelly.
Quite frankly I’m gubbed!

 

[Speybee]

Can I remind everybody here of the first post in the thread?
Im sure the poor chap has run away with his head in his hands at what you’ve done with his simple question.

Sorry but Sounding a bit like the Milk Monitor

 

[ericbeaumont]

I manned a stall for my BKA at a local Farmers Market this weekend. The association was charging £5.50/454g. I also sold my own honey at £7.00/454g, which outsold the cheaper jars! Explain that.

Perception of quality makes the difference in the mind of the consumer: some believe you get what you pay for; others just want a jar of honey. Your market had more of the former.

Reckon that if all agreed to charge £7 next year sales would remain constant or increase. Difficulty is (as always) to persuade your BKA to acknowledge that it is no longer 1977 and to endorse such a high-risk decision.

 

[ericbeaumont]

Is that supplementary information for cut comb; surely extraction is a process?

Fair point, and as usual it depends.

Ross rounds, sections or a frame of comb honey sold complete may be the ultimate in an unprocessed hive product.

If you look hard enough, cut comb can be said to be processed: it is cut from a frame with a tool to a certain size, allowed to drain and packed; that is a process. Extraction is a mechanical process that differs only by degree.

Neither of these processes alters honey significantly nor do the producers intend that they do so. Quite the opposite: the intent is to retain as much as possible of the product as completed by bees.

On the other hand, what I would term processed honey has been changed by methods and machinery used with the specific intent to alter it for sales purposes. For example, pasteurisation and filtering with diatomaceous earth to produce a consistent product .

 

[Speybee]

Fair point, and as usual it depends.

Ross rounds, sections or a frame of comb honey sold complete may be the ultimate in an unprocessed hive product.

If you look hard enough, cut comb can be said to be processed: it is cut from a frame with a tool to a certain size, allowed to drain and packed; that is a process. Extraction is a mechanical process that differs only by degree.

Neither of these processes alters honey significantly nor do the producers intend that they do so. Quite the opposite: the intent is to retain as much as possible of the product as completed by bees.

On the other hand, what I would term processed honey has been changed by methods and machinery used with the specific intent to alter it for sales purposes. For example, pasteurisation and filtering with diatomaceous earth to produce a consistent product .

I would term honey that has been blended with minimal percentage of Local Scottish honey and named as Local with the specific intent of increasing sales by hoodwinking customers they are buying 100% Local, when it is not 100% Local as ‘daylight robbery’ ....and that’s me being polite
From what my pal is telling me the local council have said this is legal and the outrage by local producers is growing as there is a loophole being exploited there.
I sold my genuine 100% non blended honey to 2 outlets and it is flying off the shelves ( and other honeys there too, next to mine, pale by comparison) with repeat customers.
I did not pasteurise my honey, or mucked about with it, I just spun and jarred it.
The taste has been the over riding comment in both places, so my product has hit the right spot and being appreciated by consumers in the vicinity.
Ross Rounds seem to be the Rolls Royce of comb honey and Im going to give it a try once I read up a bit more about it, but I will also try the cut comb method too.

 

[ericbeaumont]

(although he didn't seem to be aware of that I grant you)

Correct, JBM! Bit late after a long day and I should have gone first to Honey Regs. 2015, so thanks to M.B for setting it straight.

A however is inevitable: FSA Regs cover food in its entirety and as honey is food they may apply (can M.B clarify?). The FSA page on Food Crime seems to be applicable where it refers to adulteration - including a foreign substance which is not on the product’s label to lower costs or fake a higher quality, substitution - replacing a food or ingredient with another substance that is similar but inferior, misrepresentation - marketing or labelling a product to wrongly portray its quality, safety, origin or freshness.

 

[ericbeaumont]

There is an option on the FSA website to report a food crime based on the criteria above.

 

[Speybee]

Correct, JBM! Bit late after a long day and I should have gone first to Honey Regs. 2015, so thanks to M.B for setting it straight.

A however is inevitable: FSA Regs cover food in its entirety and as honey is food they may apply (can M.B clarify?). The FSA page on Food Crime seems to be applicable where it refers to adulteration - including a foreign substance which is not on the product’s label to lower costs or fake a higher quality, substitution - replacing a food or ingredient with another substance that is similar but inferior, misrepresentation - marketing or labelling a product to wrongly portray its quality, safety, origin or freshness.

Honey laundering.......allowing an inferior product a free ride on the coat tails of the reputation, of the quality sector of the Scottish food industry.
If it’s honey from Poland, or anywhere else, then please label as such and allow the customer to make an informed choice.

 

[beeno]

Honey laundering.......allowing an inferior product a free ride on the coat tails of the reputation, of the quality sector of the Scottish food industry.
If it’s honey from Poland, or anywhere else, then please label as such and allow the customer to make an informed choice.

Hi Speybee, An English medium sized beekeeper took his 'Local' labelled honey to a Wales market and Trading Standards told him to remove it as it was not local to the Welsh market. It is just a question of enforcement, but this was an easy case! TS are not so keen on taking on the Tescos of this world. I often get asked where my hives are in respect of my local honey claim, and in a field in the next village along does not count, in my garden does. But I do have discerning well educated customers.

 

[Speybee]

Hi Speybee, An English medium sized beekeeper took his 'Local' labelled honey to a Wales market and Trading Standards told him to remove it as it was not local to the Welsh market. It is just a question of enforcement, but this was an easy case! TS are not so keen on taking on the Tescos of this world. I often get asked where my hives are in respect of my local honey claim, and in a field in the next village along does not count, in my garden does. But I do have discerning well educated customers.

The Welsh obviously have got their act together and have efficient TS.
The situation in Fife according to my pal is not the Tesco selling this ‘local’ honey but individuals selling their goods off grid at various stalls locally, and TS saying it is legal!

This trashes genuine local honey sales by encouraging the bottom to fall out of the genuine locally produced honey market, creating expectations that 12 oz of jarred local produce should be a couple of quid.

Up here in the NE Scotland, TS are active ( thank goodness) as we have several high end producers of quality produce that export quantities of their produce abroad, with food and drink contributing all round to the local economy.

The brand of ‘Produced in Scotland’, carries a certain value up here ( despite confessing to the guilty pleasure of the odd Special Fish Supper or a Tunnocks Teacake) it’s not a case of “Torquil Dahling, what type of olive oil do you want drizzled over your organic leaves?” But more of “Senga ma Quine, that honey is just like the stuff yer granda had up at the ferm, where he kept his bees in the biscuit box, and he lived till he wis 90, so it must be guid”.

 

[Nige.Coll]

"Local" as defined by trading standards is 30 miles from the county border from which the product originates.
That can be a long way if you live in a large county.

 

[norfolknchance]

Difficult to really know, but I sell 227 Ross Rounds at £9, which is 3.96/g. Will probably go up to £11 this year as I have heather RRs.

Although no-one in London has a clue about heather they buy it on taste or because it's a niche product priced accordingly. A higher price often attracts sales and comb honey is a feel-good product that appeals the nearer we get to Christmas.

ive seen 9 half frames honey coombe selling for 250

 

[norfolknchance]

It might be better if they were to flutter occasionally off the shelves.

Shops prefer to have continual supply and there are two ways to achieve that: have stock to supply until your next crop, or pitch prices (both parties) to put the brake on sales.

I reckon it's better to sell slowly over a longer period and build a market (if that's what you want to do). If not, there's nothing wrong with supplying a seasonal product for a short period, but make sure you make the most of it: you've achieved a decent price but speed of sales suggests demand will tolerate a rise; perhaps next year sell to them at £4.75.

Selling slower at a higher price has the same result (its gone) as selling cheaper and quicker but the first route has raised not just your return but the perception of value of the product in the mind of the customer. This unseen bonus supports all beekeepers in the long-term, and it's worth remembering that whether a beekeeper sells six jars or six thousand we share the same marketplace.

What is certain is that since C19 local produce and local supply chains are seen by consumers to offer reassurance, and we must treasure and nurture that factor. One way to differentiate our product from the dodgy or the factory product is to use clear and unambiguous labelling that locates the product to the area of production, links it to the beekeeper, and maintains a higher price.

There are two sorts of customers: the one who wants cheap and doesn't care about quality, and those that care about quality and provenance and are prepared to pay for it. The second is our sort and we must be clear where our market lies.

One thing i do know i sell honey from area they from sells itself so scatter hives diff regions locally and sell as the name of place honey sells itself ,look and ask for coombe see iif they can supply ,a town with name on and honey u cant ssupply enuff in my experience, name of county then honey will be a blend

 

[norfolknchance]

Daft, isn't it? It would be equally true (and frustrating) to say that beekeepers seldom change.

Reckon many don't keep bees for honey and sell it cheap to get shot of the nuisance quickly; others are nervous of putting up the price for fear of not selling and having to take it home again; some just aren't aware of what to charge and don't think to ask; a dwindling few have sold cheap since 1956 and are content with the pitiful return.

Anyone who sells low pulls down the price and perception of value for the rest of us. If you see a beekeeper selling at £2.50/lb as Nige reported, buy the whole stock and sell it at a proper price.

should sell itself period local

 

[kerrbees]

If you do have a surplus of strained honey I would be interested in buying it. It must be from 30 miles from Warwick and will collect.