Supersedure or swarm?

[westawake90]

Evening all, quick question.

On a recent inspection I noticed one large capped queen cell on the side of a frame. I also found the queen, eggs and larva.

Would this be a typical supersedure?

For the time being I have left the queen j the hive and was going to leave the hive alone for a few weeks if it was supersedure.

 

[Curly green finger's]

Evening all, quick question.

On a recent inspection I noticed one large capped queen cell on the side of a frame. I also found the queen, eggs and larva.

Would this be a typical supersedure?

For the time being I have left the queen j the hive and was going to leave the hive alone for a few weeks if it was supersedure.

Could be ,what is the queens brood pattern like ? Is it starting to get patchy worker/drone brood
I have a colony superseding with three cells her brood pattern is going a bit patchy more drone brood where you would see just worker brood oh queen is 2021.

 

[westawake90]

No doesn’t seem to be patchy, however I would say eggs are probably not as plentiful as they were previously.

 

[The Poot]

I found just two cells in a colony recently, where the queen was “lazy” - small quantities of eggs and larvae. I assumed supercedure.
So I carried out a nucleus split to give her a chance and left one cell intact.
Seven days later they swarmed. On inspection, a bunch of cells - broken down to one again. Inspection day is tomorrow at seven days.
The queen in the nuc is going really well.

 

[drex]

At this time of year, I would assume swarm. To be safe I would nuc the queen, Mark the frame with queencell, and check again for anymore in a couple of days and knock extras down

 

[Curly green finger's]

Aye I would nuc the queen to be sure and check for eqcs in 5/7 days time.

 

[westawake90]

If I Nuc the queen should I leave the the capped cell as it is?

If I leave all alone and check on my usual 7 day cycle would I be too late ?

 

[Curly green finger's]

.

 

[Curly green finger's]

If I Nuc the queen should I leave the the capped cell as it is?

If I leave all alone and check on my usual 7 day cycle would I be too late ?

Leave the cell and check in 5/7 days for emergency queen cells .

 

[westawake90]

Perfect I will leave all alone until my next inspection and see what the story is at that stage.

 

[Curly green finger's]

Perfect I will leave all alone until my next inspection and see what the story is at that stage.

I would go back in on day five after removing the queen some would say three but imo it’s to early .

 

[westawake90]

Okay sorry I was going to leave the hive completely alone until my next inspection rather than removing the queen.

Is that the wrong thing to do?

 

[Curly green finger's]

Okay sorry I was going to leave the hive completely alone until my next inspection rather than removing the queen.

Is that the wrong thing to do?

Yes remove the queen to a nuc , find the queen remove that frame she is on plus two others one of capped brood one of honey pollen shake two frames of bees from the supers into the nuc move nuc to a different location in the apiary and stuff some grass in the entrance
Because you have a capped cell left in the parent hive already as drex said probably better to check for emergency cells two or three days later just to be sure that the existing cell hasn’t emerged.

 

[westawake90]

Perfect, just to confirm will I knock down any emergency cells that are built?

Also I presume will have to leave the queen less hive alone for a few weeks.

Apologies my confusion is because the person I bounce issues off said the best thing to do would be leave the hive completely alone for a few weeks and leave it work itself out,

 

[Curly green finger's]

Perfect, just to confirm will I knock down any emergency cells that are built?

Also I presume will have to leave the queen less hive alone for a few weeks.

Apologies my confusion is because the person I bounce issues off said the best thing to do would be leave the hive completely alone for a few weeks and leave it work itself out,

Yes knock any eqcs down shake the bees of the frames first .
After leave them for 5/7 days I’d check then to see if the capped cell has emerged and also if they have tried to make anymore cells on older larvae.
If you were to leave them and they make emergency cells they might swarm when your capped queen cell emerges .
Hopefully I’ve explained it ok ?
Watch you don’t shake the frame with the capped queen cell on you might have to brush them off with some grass or brush

 

[ericbeaumont]

knock down any emergency cells that are built?

Yes, as Mark describes above.

EQCs are made in response to the removal of the queen and thus the absence of her pheromone.

 

[westawake90]

Thanks all,

Plan is so tomorrow remove queen to Nuc. Then 5 days later recheck hive, leave original cell alone and knock down any that have been drawn in the meantime.

I presume I can then leave the original queen alone for another week and hopefully put into a new hive at this stage.

Apologies but there is so much information

 

[Curly green finger's]

We are getting there .
Step1 Nuc queen tomorrow as I described.
Step2 Two/three days check for emergency cells because you have a capped queen cell which would be ripe by this stage , knock emergency cells down .
Step 3 5/7 days later knock any cells down that could of been made on older larvae checking if the capped cell has emerged at the same time.

 

[drex]

How you proceed in the end depends on final outcome. Does new queen get mated and is a good one, with decent progeny? Was old queen good and worth keeping? Do you leave as separate or combine, killing off worst queen?
Old queen colony will take a while to build up before going into a full size hive.
Don't rush it. Take your time

 

[Curly green finger's]

How you proceed in the end depends on final outcome. Does new queen get mated and is a good one, with decent progeny? Was old queen good and worth keeping? Do you leave as separate or combine, killing off worst queen?
Old queen colony will take a while to build up before going into a full size hive.
Don't rush it. Take your time

I was going to get to that bit .
Morning drex