Supersedure or swarm cells?

[rbaz]

I have just inspected my hive and found 3 cells mid frame unsealed with larvae in it and 2 empty ones mid frame.
10 days ago I changed my brood box and bottom board (to remove the spacers the French put in) and they have done a lot of work since then despite the changeable conditions. I found brood in various stages on 8-9 frames and any space full with honey. I didn’t see the queen but found eggs and good brood patterns.
I of course added a super but what do I do about the 3 cells I found. I do want to increase my colonies and planned on doing an AS but didn't expect to find mid framed cells.
I also plan on moving my hive and any new ones to a new site (less than 3 miles away) so had planned on moving this one away for 3 weeks.
Would appreciate your help and advice this is my second year and first time dealing with swarm/ supersedure cells.

 

[VEG]

When you say empty cells do you mean that they have hatched or there isnt anything in them?

 

[rbaz]

When you say empty cells do you mean that they have hatched or there isnt anything in them?

They are very small and white looking so think they are new am sure they weren’t there 10 days ago.

 

[VEG]

I would try and find the queen then do an artificial swarm.

 

[rbaz]

I would try and find the queen then do an artificial swarm.

Ok if I do an AS using the frame with the best looking cell can I move the hive with the cell and only worker bees straight to the new site?

 

[Hebeegeebee]

By straight away, I assume you mean to allow the flyers to move to the A/S on the original site first. (A day or two?).

 

[rbaz]

By straight away, I assume you mean to allow the flyers to move to the A/S on the original site first. (A day or two?).

Yes next day or 2 days if thats better.

 

[oliver90owner]

First of all, the three feet, 3 mile rule is a pretty well 'catch-all' situation for those that don't know any better. Topograghy, forage, wind direction, can all make a difference. Without due consideration, stick to the rule; in all probability it may be obvious if there are good reasons why they might be perfectly OK at 2 miles or even less.

Cells on the same frame are generally not a problem for increase. Carefully transfer them now and separate when close to emerging - the queens/cells are much less fragile at that stage. I would not be moving a full hive nearly three miles with a recently capped queen cell. A good recipe for a non-emerging queen unless very smooth transfer.

RAB

 

[Midland Beek]

Whether swarm impulse or supersedure you can get a swarm, so if you want increase then 'yes', artificially swarm them.

With swarming you tend to get more than 3 queen cells. So in your case it is maybe just the case that you have only seen the oldest 3 - there are younger ones coming.

 

[rbaz]

First of all, the three feet, 3 mile rule is a pretty well 'catch-all' situation for those that don't know any better. Topograghy, forage, wind direction, can all make a difference. Without due consideration, stick to the rule; in all probability it may be obvious if there are good reasons why they might be perfectly OK at 2 miles or even less.

Cells on the same frame are generally not a problem for increase. Carefully transfer them now and separate when close to emerging - the queens/cells are much less fragile at that stage. I would not be moving a full hive nearly three miles with a recently capped queen cell. A good recipe for a non-emerging queen unless very smooth transfer.

RAB

Thanks RAB I had read before that moving hives with sealed cells was not a good idea. I forgot and was just trying to save some work if I could move one of them sooner. No big deal moving one or 2 together will just have to wait now. New site is up a rough track so no chance now.
2 of the cells where on the same frame same side but one was on the facing frame. Weather not looking good tomorrow but will give it a go if it’s dry.
How would you recommend I do the AS assuming I can find the queen tomorrow. I only have new foundation.
Put the queen in a new hive on the old location with a good frame of brood and 1 of stores (checking there aren’t any cells on the frames).
Old hive meter away Keeping all 3 cells together then cut down to one once sealed?
Thanks everybody for the help.

 

[rbaz]

Whether swarm impulse or supersedure you can get a swarm, so if you want increase then 'yes', artificially swarm them.

With swarming you tend to get more than 3 queen cells. So in your case it is maybe just the case that you have only seen the oldest 3 - there are younger ones coming.

The hive was really bursting with bees brood and stores I was a few days late with the super.

 

[oliver90owner]

You won't be A/Sing if these are supecedure cells.

Remember she was not wanted by the bees if being supeceded and they would not/might not (edited after MB's post) be in swarm mode. So there may not be a 'surplus' of wax building bees. If that is the case (and one can never be totally confident at a distance) simply treat as several splits. Just remember increase means less crop. She may be damaged, old, performing below expectations, short on queen pheromone per egs. You may wish to retain her for breeding in a nuc sized box, or they may reject her again. Bees will do as bees do, and they probably know best!

 

[rbaz]

You won't be A/Sing if these are supecedure cells.

Remember she was not wanted by the bees if being supeceded and they would not/might not (edited after MB's post) be in swarm mode. So there may not be a 'surplus' of wax building bees. If that is the case (and one can never be totally confident at a distance) simply treat as several splits. Just remember increase means less crop. She may be damaged, old, performing below expectations, short on queen pheromone per egs. You may wish to retain her for breeding in a nuc sized box, or they may reject her again. Bees will do as bees do, and they probably know best!

Hmmm but should I still split them then? if they want a new Q I guess they will just make more cells later to replace her.

 

[tonybloke]

don't add any brood, there isn't any in a swarm!! add a drawn frame if you've got one, it can be with stores in, but add a feeder either rapid or frame feeder (if you got one) and feed with 1:1 syrup to help them draw wax.
if queen cells are close together, a hat-pin is good for 'sorting out' any unwanted ones

 

[rbaz]

Weather not looking good today forecast is ok for Friday afternoon so might have to wait until then to open the hive.
If I can’t find the Queen on Friday (but eggs are present) as a last resort assuming the cells are sealed and no swarming has taken place can I remove them to give me more time?