supers

[spiridoula 8]

I am, as I have always been, a bit incompetent.

I have one hive.

I got it from one of our dear admins and it has done v well. I took no honey from it last year. A little the year before (thin and horrid) which I replaced with sugar. This year I got a rammed jammed super in late June. Took off the super and took the honey. A mighty fine 20 odd jars. Walloped on three supers and left it all alone until yesterday apart from amking sure that the hive itself was ok and that the bees going in and out were fine. I am sort of a believer in hands off except that I treat for mite with eucalyptus each year.

Next year I will try to split into two (see email then).

Anyhow my bees have been pretty hopeless. I have had half of one super filled depite the best summer in Sussex known to all of us here. I have taken off one super and left two on and I will leave alone till the end of September. Then take some honey and feed them.

But shouldn't I be getting more honey than this? Did I eff up with the supers? Should I be looking into the brood box ( I don't like to, except in May).

No mites. The bees are fine.

Sorry. Small scale enquiry, but I am learning. Hive is in a country meadow beside gardens but there is a lack of late summer flowers.

S8

 

[madasafish]

If the bees are not thriving in this summer, then it is likely you have a problem. Could be anything from EFB, AFB , sac brood, chalkbrood or more likely varroa.

Have you treated for varroa? Your not seeing mites means you have seen no mites. It does not mean there are no mites. There is a not very subtle difference

 

[user 6228]

i can venture some physics... I'll let others tell you bee keeping. A Super loses a lot of heat. More supers even more heat required just to maintain temperature in the brood area. Ripening the honey also takes lots more energy. If the nectar income drops then, it is very easy to go into energy deficit as the bees still have the energy overheads of the supers.
particularlly if you have a Queen excluder You need to manage the energy overheads by reducing and increasing the number of supers in a timely fashion.
The mention of the queen excluder is because the critical heat losses will be related to how far the critical heat generation (brood area) is away from the crown board.

This is all to do with the mass and heat flow in a fluid filled container with a movable heat source. In this case Air and bees.

 

[Roola]

i can venture some physics... I'll let others tell you bee keeping. A Super loses a lot of heat. More supers even more heat required just to maintain temperature in the brood area. Ripening the honey also takes lots more energy. If the nectar income drops then, it is very easy to go into energy deficit as the bees still have the energy overheads of the supers.
particularlly if you have a Queen excluder You need to manage the energy overheads by reducing and increasing the number of supers in a timely fashion.
The mention of the queen excluder is because the critical heat losses will be related to how far the brood area is away from the crown board.

I was going to say the same, taking 1 off and then giving them 3 to heat probably kept them fairly busy as was, more bees nursing, less bees foraging?

 

[oliver90owner]

I would not be at all surprised if the original queen is not there.

I would not be at all surprised if there is a varroa problem.

I am surprised you have not removed two supers as they are unlikely to need a second in the near future, and if they do, another could be added easily.

Are these supers fully drawn. I am expecting they are. I would advise you inspect ASAP. And treat with a recognised varroa treatment.

 

[Vramin]

I am sort of a believer in hands off....

Anyhow my bees have been pretty hopeless.

Should I be looking into the brood box
S8

I think the answer might be in the question.

 

[Tom Bick]

Your bees may be just fine and doing what bees do with perhaps the odd swarm every now and then.

 

[user 6228]

.... I am sort of a believer in hands off ..
....
S8

If you want the bees to do their own thing that might be best without a queen excluder. Then they can adjust the position of the brood area to suit the temps etc..
However, that introduces its own complications

 

[itma]

I am, as I have always been, a bit incompetent.


.. Took off the super and took the honey... Walloped on three supers and left it all alone until yesterday ... I am sort of a believer in hands off except that I treat for mite with eucalyptus each year.
... Did I eff up with the supers? Should I be looking into the brood box ( I don't like to, except in May).

No mites. The bees are fine.
...

Taking away one full super and replacing with 3 wasn't the best of ideas, as others have explained.
Were they full of drawn comb?

Eucalyptus isn't a recognised effective mite treatment.
A single annual treatment (even an effective one) is best not to be relied upon.
I rather doubt that your bees really do have "no mites".
// When did you "treat with eucalyptus?"

You should be looking in the brood box. Even weekly, in peak season.
Its how you find out what is happening in the colony and what help they might need.

 

[masterBK]

Why has no-one suggested that the colony has probably swarmed (and swarmed etc). If you don't inspect you don't see swarm cells & so don't do anything about it.

 

[Swarm]

Why has no-one suggested that the colony has probably swarmed (and swarmed etc). If you don't inspect you don't see swarm cells & so don't do anything about it.

o90 already hinted at that
"I would not be at all surprised if the original queen is not there."
I agree, it all sounds like hit and hope to me.

 

[Ely]

Having 3 supers to heat isn't the issue for having no honey. Not having enough bees to fill the supers is the issue. They were strong enough to get you a spring crop, after that no doubt they swarmed and you lost your foragers for the summer crop.

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

Having 3 supers to heat isn't the issue for having no honey. Not having enough bees to fill the supers is the issue. They were strong enough to get you a spring crop, after that no doubt they swarmed and you lost your foragers for the summer crop.

(as with Tom Bick, o9o and others - and DerekM.) swarmed and a heavy varroa load, (eucalyptus, good for sore throats and blocked nose but doesn't do much for varroa destructor)loads of space with no need

 

[TryingToLetThemBee]

Why has no-one suggested that the colony has probably swarmed (and swarmed etc). If you don't inspect you don't see swarm cells & so don't do anything about it.

I was sugeesting it to myself till I reached this post... I hope they found good homes.

 

[iand]

Could it be they have swarmed, and the new Q is a drone layer, they will go backwards rapidly with that handicap. Maybe time for a hands on look to see what is going on.

 

[spiridoula 8]

thanks all for this. I will have a really good look this evening in the brood box to see if there is a fundamental problem. I don't believe there is. The varroa treatment I have used is Api Life. Is that no good? I put it on in October.

As for the rather snitty "I hope they have found a good home" comment. Blimey.

I think the cause is that I should have put supers on one at a time, but I'll see.

 

[Cazza]

thanks all for this. I will have a really good look this evening in the brood box to see if there is a fundamental problem. I don't believe there is. The varroa treatment I have used is Api Life. Is that no good? I put it on in October.


I think the cause is that I should have put supers on one at a time, but I'll see.

I would take the advice that others have offered:
1. They probably swarmed
2. You need more than one once only treatment in a year.

I imagine you are quite right about the supers but that will likely not be the only issue.
Cazza

 

[itma]

... The varroa treatment I have used is Api Life. Is that no good? I put it on in October.

ApilifeVar is principally Thymol.
Its OK if used as directed.
October is kinda late, so cooler, so the Thymol doesn't vaporise properly, making the treatment less effective than it could be.
And LAST October is ten months ago... too long.

Why are you asking if it is "no good"?
Didn't you check after treatment to get a measure for the remaining problem?
And how often (and how) have you tracked the varroa level since then?



No question, o90o's observation that your bees have likely swarmed is a large part of the cause of there being no honey in the three supers you somewhat greedily installed.
But the swarming sounds like just one symptom of a deeper problem.
In a nutshell - you shouldn't expect any honey crop whatsoever if you do not make an effort to properly look after your bees.


/// Sorry if that sounds hard - but I'm being honest with you and trying to get you to do more to look after your bees better. If you don't, they'll just die. And you can blame the winter weather if you so choose.