Supers - foundation or foundationless? Pros and Cons?

[RichardK]

The swarms I caught in May are just starting to produce new bees now, hence I'm hoping things will pick up a pace as a result. So, I'm thinking forward to supers, should I get to add any this season. What should I be doing here - adding full foundation or just a strip? And is there any benefit of one over the other?

 

[Boston Bees]

Wired foundation so it survives extraction intact.

Foundationless offers many benefits in the brood box, not so much in the supers

(unless you want to make comb honey of course)

 

[RichardK]

Thanks for that - just what I needed to know!

 

[drdrday]

Normally, yes, I'd say wired foundation to survive the extractor, but that depends whether you have access to an extractor.
If you don't have one yet, or don't have one you can borrow, then you might want to consider using unwired thin foundation. Then you have the option to either use it as cut comb, or chunk honey, or just smash up the comb to extract the honey if you don't have an extractor.
Of course that means you won't have drawn supers ready for the bees to reuse again next year.

 

[pargyle]

I've always been foundationless in the supers and I don't wire super frames .... once they are filled out with comb they are pretty robust and I don't get many that come apart. The key to spinning them out is to start slowly and only turn the speed up when the bulk of the honey has spun out.

If you don't have drawn super frames you can't juts go completely foundationless - you will need to alternate foundationless with foundation - they need a guide otherwise they do get creative.

So .. you have the option to do both - foundation and foundationless ... you will find out, at first hand, which they prefer and how quickly they draw and fill each type out ....

I already know ....

 

[RichardK]

Normally, yes, I'd say wired foundation to survive the extractor, but that depends whether you have access to an extractor.
If you don't have one yet, or don't have one you can borrow, then you might want to consider using unwired thin foundation. Then you have the option to either use it as cut comb, or chunk honey, or just smash up the comb to extract the honey if you don't have an extractor.
Of course that means you won't have drawn supers ready for the bees to reuse again next year.

You have a good point - but one I didn't mention incase it complicated the question. So....even if I do get to add a super(s) this season, I don't yet know what I'll do for extraction. Maybe it'll be manual this year & buy an extractor next year. I'm really not sure.

I'm finding that even though I'm getting set up 'on the cheap', it's still fairly expensive! And my wife is prioritizing a new ensuite over the bees....

 

[RichardK]

I've always been foundationless in the supers and I don't wire super frames .... once they are filled out with comb they are pretty robust and I don't get many that come apart. The key to spinning them out is to start slowly and only turn the speed up when the bulk of the honey has spun out.

If you don't have drawn super frames you can't juts go completely foundationless - you will need to alternate foundationless with foundation - they need a guide otherwise they do get creative.

So .. you have the option to do both - foundation and foundationless ... you will find out, at first hand, which they prefer and how quickly they draw and fill each type out ....

I already know ....

That is really interesting - I the no I may well try your method. Wired + foundation mixed with non-whites foundation less. Should the outside frames be one or the other?

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

never had an issue with unwired foundation breaking during extraction. I vcsn't recall having one blow on me - had a few wired ones go though

 

[pargyle]

That is really interesting - I the no I may well try your method. Wired + foundation mixed with non-whites foundation less. Should the outside frames be one or the other?

I don't think it will make a lot of difference as they tend to start drawing frames out in the middle of the box and work outwards ...

I still don't think it's necessary to have wired frames in supers ....

 

[Sutty]

You have a good point - but one I didn't mention incase it complicated the question. So....even if I do get to add a super(s) this season, I don't yet know what I'll do for extraction. Maybe it'll be manual this year & buy an extractor next year. I'm really not sure.

I'm finding that even though I'm getting set up 'on the cheap', it's still fairly expensive! And my wife is prioritizing a new ensuite over the bees....

Moving the bees into the ensuite should solve the problem completely

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

I'm finding that even though I'm getting set up 'on the cheap', it's still fairly expensive! And my wife is prioritizing a new ensuite over the bees.

Got SWMBO an en suite years ago, antique actually although there is a crack in the handle so you have to be careful when sliding it from under the bed in case you spill any.

 

[sean-a]

If you don't have drawn super frames you can't juts go completely foundationless - you will need to alternate foundationless with foundation - they need a guide otherwise they do get creative.

Once you have a few drawn combs you can interlace foundationless frames between drawn comb.
If you leave too much space you end up with brace comb and they glue all the frames together, wax bulges into gaps in the adjecent comb and you squash bees and mush honey all over the place getting them out.

Trust me....I know!!

Oh and make sure your hive is vertical. If it leans a bit, your bees will still build the comb vertically and it just means that the bees will glue the foundationless frames together. Hives might start out verticle, but if the hivestand sinks on one side because of the weight.....the bees will make you pay!