Superbees ??

[Somerford]

let's get back to the thread !

 

[hedgerow pete]

quite what is it you need further information with somerford in regards the super

 

[Frisbee]

Hi RAB,

Now why do you do that instead of hitting the quote button like this?

It's so much easier for others to read

Yours Roy

He likes to shout.............

Sorry Somerford

Frisbee

 

[oliver90owner]

It is only bold, not capitals, so in my book - not shouting.

Regards, RAB

 

[Somerford]

quite what is it you need further information with somerford in regards the super

well, I figure the logical progression of this thread leads on to who supplies these superbees, if you can call them superbees at all, and how might this affect the choice of hive - for example, i purchase a 'super' queen or nuc, hive them in a national. then find , 12 months later they swarm.

Now, do they swarm because I hive them in a national, afterall they are a super bee and they have been selected not to swarm, or do they swarm because super bee or not, that is what they will do, bees being bees ?

Or, theory 2, I hive them in a bigger hive, say 14x12, commercial or larger. 12 months on they don't swarm, but produce only an average crop of honey in line with my bulk standard hives...are they now considered a super bee just because they didn't swarm ?

You could think of 100's of scenarios similar to this....

thoughts ?

 

[BKF Admin]

Verroa resistant,that would be a good start for a superbee..
Regards swarming like you say Somerford bees will swarm,so maybe less inclination to swarm ?

 

[JCBrum]

- for example, i purchase a 'super' queen or nuc, hive them in a national. then find , 12 months later they swarm.

Huh, more like a fortnight ......

Now, do they swarm because I hive them in a national,

Probably, but imo (inexperienced) it's only one factor, others play a big part as well.

afterall they are a super bee and they have been selected not to swarm,

Hmmm, I wonder ........

or do they swarm because super bee or not, that is what they will do, bees being bees ?

Definately, but subject to circumstances and 'mood'. A lot depends on what the bees think they need. An artificial swarm technique seems to be a tried and tested process which satisfies the bees. I reckon room to grow, fresh foundation, and absence/presence of brood, are all factors. If they are determined to swarm, they will.

, theory 2, I hive them in a bigger hive, say 14x12, commercial or larger. 12 months on they don't swarm, but produce only an average crop of honey in line with my bulk standard hives...are they now considered a super bee just because they didn't swarm ?

This is hypothetical, give the situation which prevails now your best shot and see what actually happens, then deal with that. Limit your imagination with your experience. Don't invent problems.

could think of 100's of scenarios similar to this....

Don't bother, deal with present problems, tomorrow's another day.


Those are my thoughts, as requested, maybe it helps

 

[JCBrum]

p.s.
from above > A lot depends on what the bees think they need.<

Bees don't 'think', their responses are instinctive. They are genetically programmed to carry out reproductive bee-haviour.

They don't know why they do things, only that they must.

Like some one else I know on this forum, ahem, (just kidding)

 

[Crg]

crg without this becoming a slanging match i will try to explain to you what a F1 is.

I know exactly what F1 means.. that's why I keep questioning your use of it. I was concerned you didn't know what F1 meant as you keep avoiding answering my (what should be simple) questions and resort to name calling instead.

For example what F1 superbees does NZ export?

It's not that they couldn't export it, it's just in all my years as a NZ beekeeper, and my few years as a beekeeper in the UK, and knowing two people who import NZ bees to the UK, I've never came across any.

 

[Crg]

My belief is that talk of superbees is little more than marketing to try and get people to buy them.

Getting back to the thread...

I don't really like the term superbees. It's too vague, as you say more about marketing. I've got greyhounds, are they "superdogs" just because they've been selectively bred to sleep all day and night?

IMO, breeding a bee well doesn't make it a superbee - it just makes a bee that better suited to whatever the breeder's goal is.

 

[hedgerow pete]

i have and alway will use the trem F1 or super bee for what it is literal meaning to not would be an insult to the breeders who spend hundreds of thousands of pounds investing in them, i do not use it on my bees as the best description for mine would be dark european bees, anyone who spends years breeding a newer and better type of bee deserve all the recognitition there is, i personaly find the newer breeds of bee to much of a hand full personaly and find that there breeding cycles can not delt with , with my sort of bee handling techniques, i would say a new bee could get on with them better because they do not have any of my history .

my only real concern with these newer types of bees is that my hive design is alot older and to the point of being out dated size wise to the newer bees, i dought this would have any effect to most people if they just buy a nuc because you get what you get, it is only when you realy look and find a supplier of new single queens do you realy get to start with my concerns, there are many people on this forum that make alot of money breeding or selling queen and nucs and personal i think there opinion is a better judge than my own , try mike at easy bees or norton bothare proffesionals with bees and see what they say rather than a hairy brummie

 

[OXFORDBEE]

p.s.
from above > A lot depends on what the bees think they need.<

They don't know why they do things, only that they must.

Like some one else I know on this forum, ahem, (just kidding)

Lots of experts on this forum!

 

[m100]

Just to be a tad pedantic for a moment it was stated earlier that a queen could not mate with her own drones and this was then refuted.

A queen can mate with her mothers drones but not with her own since she needs to come into lay before she has her own drones.

Just to be even more pedantic...

http://www.apidologie.org/articles/apido/pdf/2000/04/m0408.pdf

 

[OXFORDBEE]

Just to be even more pedantic...

I think there's also a mating isolation mechanism in operation where queens won't get effectively mated if there is only one drone congregation area nearby....

 

[Crg]

i have and alway will use the trem F1 or super bee for what it is literal meaning

I will always use F1 when appropriate. It is clearly defined what that means.

Superbee however isn't so clearly defined.

Steve Taber in his excellent book "Breeding Super Bees" defines it as: "a super bee is any bee with uniformly desirable characteristics that no other bees have".

So it's possible for bees bred from dark european stock to match that definition.

 

[Bcrazy]

In my opinion there is NO such Honey Bee as a Super Bee.

Steve Taber is his excellent book "Breeding Super Bees" defines it as: "a super bee is any bee with uniformly desirable characteristics that no other bees have".

As beekeepers we would all like a strain of bee that we perceive as the qualities that is required by the individual beekeeper.

If you are into bee breeding and not just queen rearing then it is possible over a long period of time to achieve as near as dammit to what your requirements are. There will be throwbacks due to genetic makeup from one strain to another.

But for the majority of beekeepers Bee Breeding is well out of their capabilities.


Regards;

 

[JCBrum]

Perhaps at a basic level, the significant difference between queen rearing and bee breeding is the element of selection.

Whilst we may not be selective at all concerning the drone pool, we can be very selective about our home bred queens, and choose which to cull etc. This will give a useful input towards desirable characteristics and at the same time will keep the gene pool on a broad base.

Although I have not studied Mr R Patterson's edicts, I understand he is in favour of "Improved British Mongrels". Perhaps this is as much as 'breeding' as the average beekeeper needs if he does not wish to be dependent on commercial queen rearers or breeders. Also he is then assured that he has 'local bees' and is not introducing any undesirable 'imported' features.

I'm afraid my practical knowledge is not yet extensive in this area but I am very much looking forward to learning more about it on an exciting trip planned for next month.

 

[Bcrazy]

Have any of you members read the following?

Elements of genetics with special reference to the Bee. by J. Mesquida

If this is read then you will see that producing what you require in your bees characteristics is a long process. You need to know about heredity, divisions of the cells, hybridisation, and the rule of dominance to mention a few aspects.

Regards;

 

[BKF Admin]

I have also read that you need a minimum of over 80 colonies for any chance of long term success.

 

[DrNick]

Whenever I see the words "Queen Rearing" I always think it is something that Elton John would be in some way involved, please tell me it is not just me that thinks this way.