Stores all gone!

[simon kerr]

Checked the bees today and found the supers empty and absolutely no stores. My large hive which was bursting at the seems with bees and a good supply of stores two weeks ago I found were starving with many dead bees. So all given heavy syrup to build them back up to a healthy level. I haven t been able to check due to the poor weather and very windy. So upsetting, the weather this year has played havoc with my bees. The ivy has not flowered yet, hopefully not much longer. Fingers crossed for better weather next year.

 

[itma]

How small is your reduced entrance?

 

[simon kerr]

It is the regular sized entrance block for the national that I put on for wasp prevention, the same as I used last year without any issues.

 

[richardbees]

Agree with itma.... it looks like you wuz robbed.

Are both hives totally empty of stores? If you have a robbing problem you need to reduce the entrance right down to a single bee space before attempting to re-feed with syrup.

 

[simon kerr]

All my hives are low or devoid of stores, I am very rural which you would assume would be ideal for the bees.....but alas no it is like a desert for the bees, vast fields of wheat, potatoes or sugar beet. Unfortunately with the use of herbicides wild flowers dont have a chance.

 

[beeno]

Hi Simon,
So disappointing for you and me. Mine are not performing as expected either, but I am only a newbie. Still got some capped honey, but all the syrup and nectar has been used and not converted into capped stores as I expected. Mine are bringing in lots of Ivy pollen, but perhaps not nectar? I must admit that I was only looking for stores. Must check to see if they are going mad on raising brood - weather permitting. In the meantime I am feeding heavy syrup. Manager at the supermarket told me that all that sugar is not good for me! Although great activity at the hive entrance - lots of pollen, a nice hum from the hive and all the bees flying off in different direction, makes me think that they are not being robbed. Just when you think you are winning!

 

[richardbees]

but all the syrup and nectar has been used

......at the risk of having misunderstood your post - you simply haven't fed them enough.

e.g. I winter feed each of my National hives 20 lbs of sugar made into syrup at 2 lbs sugar / 1 pt water and more later on if they'll take it.

 

[The Riviera Kid]

e.g. I winter feed each of my National hives 20 lbs of sugar made into syrup at 2 lbs sugar / 1 pt water and more later on if they'll take it.

I've been feeding mine with a little more than that (25lbs sugar) but have noticed that the stores on the frames are less than the weight of the feed that they've been given. This has been the case in two colonies who have continued to be powerful through the season.

The slightly smaller, weaker colonies who have been fed the same amount have got more stores left, so the reasonably conclusion is that the more powerful ones have eaten a significant percentage of what they've been fed. All have small entrances (single bee sized) to stop robbing and it seems somewhat unlikely that the weaker colonies have robbed the stronger ones anyway...

Frankly, after the way this year has been, absolutely *nothing* surprises me anymore!

 

[jackbee]

I've been feeding mine with a little more than that (25lbs sugar) but have noticed that the stores on the frames are less than the weight of the feed that they've been given.

Well they'd have to evaporate off some of the water and maybe even use some, so understandable I would have thought

 

[simon kerr]

Where are they supposed to store 25lb of syrup? I have taken off the empty supers and am feeding heavy syrup, but fear they will run out of space for the brood? This has always puzzled me

 

[The Riviera Kid]

Well they'd have to evaporate off some of the water and maybe even use some, so understandable I would have thought

Yes, I agree that some is lost through evaporation, but the difference is substantial and can't imagine that it can be accounted for in this way e.g. 25lbs syrup fed - but barely 10lbs in the brood box (including what additional food the bees have found for themselves).

I am now re-feeding colonies I fed in August to top them up!

Where are they supposed to store 25lb of syrup? I have taken off the empty supers and am feeding heavy syrup, but fear they will run out of space for the brood? This has always puzzled me

A brood frame holds about 4 to 5 lbs of honey so 25lbs of syrup is 5 frames or so, leaving plenty of frames left for the brood.

There is almost no brood rearing in winter anyway so little space is needed.

 

[beeno]

but all the syrup and nectar has been used

......at the risk of having misunderstood your post - you simply haven't fed them enough.

e.g. I winter feed each of my National hives 20 lbs of sugar made into syrup at 2 lbs sugar / 1 pt water and more later on if they'll take it.

Hi richardbees,
The large colony which I was most disappointed with have so far had 18 lbs of sugar and no robbing as far as I can detect with mouseguard entrance. But had 4 frames of capped brood on 27th, so maybe she's off again. Thanks for the data to check against.

 

[beeno]

I've been feeding mine with a little more than that (25lbs sugar) but have noticed that the stores on the frames are less than the weight of the feed that they've been given. This has been the case in two colonies who have continued to be powerful through the season.

The slightly smaller, weaker colonies who have been fed the same amount have got more stores left, so the reasonably conclusion is that the more powerful ones have eaten a significant percentage of what they've been fed. All have small entrances (single bee sized) to stop robbing and it seems somewhat unlikely that the weaker colonies have robbed the stronger ones anyway...

Frankly, after the way this year has been, absolutely *nothing* surprises me anymore!

Hi The Riviera Kid,
Describes my situation very well. It's like starting the feeding regime all over!

 

[Luka22]

Hi all,

we are currently still feeding our girls as well and where wondering how many liters HS we have to feed them. Looking at this:

e.g. I winter feed each of my National hives 20 lbs of sugar made into syrup at 2 lbs sugar / 1 pt water and more later on if they'll take it.

A brood frame holds about 4 to 5 lbs of honey so 25lbs of syrup is 5 frames or so, leaving plenty of frames left for the brood.

If a hive should have about 20kg of stores, that would be about 10 DN frames. So looking at the above and if I understand this right that would be 50lbs (22.5kg Stores). If I am correct, than this would be about 17l HS which is about 15kg of Sugar and 7.5l of Water.

Is this correct ? I have the feeling there is a mistake in my calculation or better in my way of thinking. I am just trying to get a feeling of how much I might have to feed the bees, so that they have enough for the winter. I know, I should weight the hive, but need to get the tool for it first. Most of our colonies don't even have 10 drawn frames in their boxes, so I sometimes do wonder where they store the HS anyway, but first of all I would love to know if my thinking is correct anyway. So lets say they take down 5 times a small Rapid Feeder (=2l) HS, should I than be pretty much save since they have their own stores anyway?

 

[drex]

I left them with quite a bit of honey when I extracted, and have been feeding since. Fed more this year than in previous years and the hives are still light. It was a warm day on Saturday, so I had a quick look in one of the BB's. Sealed brood over 6 frames, still with a good ratio of unsealed and eggs. She is not really slowing down much yet. OMF open and top insulation on, entrance block in but not reduced as no robbing and few wasps. Bringing in loads of Ivy pollen, but obviously not much nectar

I will buy yet more sugar this Saturday

 

[beeno]

I left them with quite a bit of honey when I extracted, and have been feeding since. Fed more this year than in previous years and the hives are still light. It was a warm day on Saturday, so I had a quick look in one of the BB's. Sealed brood over 6 frames, still with a good ratio of unsealed and eggs. She is not really slowing down much yet. OMF open and top insulation on, entrance block in but not reduced as no robbing and few wasps. Bringing in loads of Ivy pollen, but obviously not much nectar

I will buy yet more sugar this Saturday

Hi drex,
Sounds like my situation apart from insulation. Spoke to an ex-beeinspector and insulation goes on in Feb/March to stimulate brood. Not before in his opinion as you are trying to get the b.....s to bed. Not that it seems to matter here.

 

[The Riviera Kid]

If a hive should have about 20kg of stores, that would be about 10 DN frames. So looking at the above and if I understand this right that would be 50lbs (22.5kg Stores). If I am correct, than this would be about 17l HS which is about 15kg of Sugar and 7.5l of Water.

A full National brood frame certainly holds around 5lbs of honey - a little more than 1.5kg.

I don't think that there is any "fixed" answer as to how many kg of honey a colony needs. It depends on many things such as the weather.

Rather than work on the quantity of syrup, I feed them, and see how many frames of *capped honey* that makes, and then feed more if required.

I aim to have maybe 6 frames of honey (30lbs) for them to go in to winter for a colony that has a single national brood box in summer.

You'll need more if you double brood your hives.

It's better to over feed than under feed. If there are frames left over in spring you can take them out and use them in nucs or put them in boxes containing newly-caught swarms. I find that swarms are less likey to desert a new home when there is lovely honey to eat.

In contrast, it's not nearly so easy to bring bees that have starved to death back to life!!!!

 

[Luka22]

Hi,

If 6 DN Frames would be enough, than this would be great, as I said they don't even have 10 drawn frames available. About the amount of Syrup....

Rather than work on the quantity of syrup, I feed them, and see how many frames of *capped honey* that makes, and then feed more if required.

That would be my first choice as well, but since the weather is not that great right now, I don't dare to pull the frames out to count. That is why I was asking how many liter of HS should be fed approximately, that I can feel secure they don't starve by Christmas.

 

[Dave /Oscroft]

feeding

its an interesting topic this one, ive had to feed my bees almost all year thats from September last year !. From early Feb, fondant, I lost a colony in March, they died of starvation !. Early Rape did no good as it rained all the time. Ive lost count of how many kilos of sugar ive fed them. On each inspection since early last year there has been no stores in the hives, as fast as ive fed them its gone. Now it can only be that they have been eating it as fast as ive given them it or its being robbed out, it s been happening all year. Yesterday i gave them another 15 kilos of sugar between 7 hives. Ive fed them each week at least that amount for months on end.
What worries me is what about wild feral coloies that are not being looked after? there was an article, in this months BBKA mag headed "de-synchronisation of pollinators and plants" and its definatley the case here in my area of Cheshire.
Ive lost 9 colonies in all, some were only small swarms collected but a sad loss all the same and very demoralising to say the least.
I'll learn from it and hope to do better next year, but I think its has been a difficult year, and also a beekeeper said the same to me and he's been doing it since Adam was a lad, he's never known a year like it ( or last year come to that) !!!!

Hey but you learn as you go along !

Dave W

 

[Lorenz]

That sounds very demoralising. Someone on here posted about how the new strains of OSR don't produce as much nectar and pollen as the old ones. True or not?

I wonder what the bees can eat in good years if it is all wheat and potatoes.

I've been thinking about moving my bees from the sites where I had to feed them in the Summer. On the better sites for forage, even with bad weather this year I didn't have to feed. Not so easy to find a good site with good forage though. You might have to move yours?