Still significant mite drop after OA

[lizzie-drippin]

Yep, it is under. Still got significant drop

5th treatment now...kind of wish I had stuck with MAQS...

What would be an acceptable 24 hour drop at his stage of the season?

 

[Erichalfbee]

Yep, it is under. Still got significant drop

5th treatment now...kind of wish I had stuck with MAQS...

What would be an acceptable 24 hour drop at his stage of the season?

How much brood is in the hive?

 

[lizzie-drippin]

How much brood is in the hive?

How much brood is in the hive?

These are strong colonies, brood boxes full of bees and plenty of brood. Not counted the number of frames of brood though.

I can do that tomorrow.

Is there a general rule of thumb?

 

[Erichalfbee]

No but if there is a lot of brood but you’re still having a large drop it means that your treatment is ineffective ( doubtful if you’re doing it properly), the hive has a big infestation or they are robbing out a collapsing colony and bringing mites home.
What sort of 24 hour drop are you getting?

 

[lizzie-drippin]

No but if there is a lot of brood but you’re still having a large drop it means that your treatment is ineffective ( doubtful if you’re doing it properly), the hive has a big infestation or they are robbing out a collapsing colony and bringing mites home.
What sort of 24 hour drop are you getting?

I will have my next count tomorrow and will post here, thanks.

This is my 5th treatment...can I keep going? Or will it harm the bees?

 

[Erichalfbee]

No you can keep going. I did 7 one year before I gave up and put in Apivar. I counted in excess of 7K mites. Counting them became an obsession. I’d never seen so many. There’s a thread somewhere here.

 

[Erichalfbee]

https://beekeepingforum.co.uk/threads/sudden-huge-mite-drop.40758/

 

[Hachi]

Is there a general rule of thumb?

What would be an acceptable 24 hour drop at his stage of the season?

You're looking at this in the wrong way. The only important factor is the mite drop. The NBU say 10 mites and below per day drop is within limits whereas above 30 mites per day drop you should treat.

So if you count weekly, then a 70 mite drop in a week is acceptable [70 / 7 = 10/day average drop].

https://nationalbeeunit.com/downloadDocument.cfm?id=1390
It matters not what time of year you treat, what's important is that you do effectively to get the numbers down to save the hive.

Us that vape do it 4 times every 5 days to cover a brood cycle that it is suggested kills 95% of the mites in the hive.

Hope this helps?

 

[echidna]

I will have my next count tomorrow and will post here, thanks.

This is my 5th treatment...can I keep going? Or will it harm the bees?

I've had a couple of years when I had to do far more late autumn/winter vapes than the packet instructions allow, even though I'd treated with Apiguard in August and one year also with MAQS in June/July. I think last year one hive got 8, and then I resorted to varromed which it said could be used with brood (even though trickled oa can't, so that was odd). I did eventually get to just a few mites every few days (starting from hundreds), and the colonies were fine in spring.
It did seem like I was exposing the bees to ridiculous amounts of chemicals, but I decided that was better than ongoing exposure to mites. Given that the colonies survived, I'd do the same again, but I realise there might be longer term effects on the queens. I now use Apivar not Apiguard in August, because I think the temperatures get too cool in Yorkshire for the second tray of Apiguard to be effective.
I still don't know why the mites got so out of hand, given that I was keeping an eye on natural fall through the year. Some people seem to think varroa control is easy if you just follow the recommended autumn and winter treatments (and stick to the packet instructions!), but I haven't found that to be the case.
So, don't worry if you have to keep going with your vapes. The lower you can get the mite numbers the better. I can't remember where I saw it, but I read a good article about how having slighly lower numbers when you finish treating in winter can make a huge difference to the number when you take the supers off in late summer. For a given number of doubling-time periods the mites have through the season, if you start lower you don't reach the point where doubling the population means thousands more mites. Good luck!

 

[Erichalfbee]

I still don't know why the mites got so out of hand, given that I was keeping an eye on natural fall through the year.

I’m convinced my high counts a few years back were due to the colony robbing out a collapsing one somewhere. I did a little experiment catching a cupful of returning foragers and sugar rolled them. They dropped a significant number of mites. Now seeing as foragers don’t carry a heavy burden ( varroa tending to stay on nurse bees when they aren’t under cappings) I reckoned that might be proof.

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

I’m convinced my high counts a few years back were due to the colony robbing out a collapsing one somewhere. I did a little experiment catching a cupful of returning foragers and sugar rolled them. They dropped a significant number of mites. Now seeing as foragers don’t carry a heavy burden ( varroa tending to stay on nurse bees when they aren’t under cappings) I reckoned that might be proof.

I've had it a few times at one apiary when early in the season I've found near catastrophic mite numbers in colonies there - spoke to an SBI about it and he confirmed that I was surrounded by leavitalone beekeepers - as opposed to non treaters or those naiive (and sometimes vile) creatures, the anti treaters

 

[Chunky Plumpy]

In this thread there are references to various treatments and then in two separate cases it reads as if keepers 'resorted' to Apivar. I have just put a couple of Apivar strips in my two hives but was wondering if that would be enough, should I be vaping as well in one hive which is currently showing a high mite drop count? Thanks CP.

 

[Erichalfbee]

I resorted to Amitraz because I really don't like that sort of chemical in my hives. Having vaped 7 times at least you have the option of leaving the strips in for a few weeks without visiting the hives.
It is effective....for now
Resistance is already here though

 

[Chunky Plumpy]

@Erichalfbee , I understand the reluctance to use chemicals and as I learn it's one of the things I'll reconsider given I only produce honey for the family to consume.

Whilst the strips are effective and stay in the hive for some 6-10 weeks, I wondered if they are slow to start working so when mite numbers are high then is it wise to use a vaporiser or another quick acting treatment to get mites under control first?

This will be my first winter so I'd like to go into it with a little less guesswork if I can. Thanks CP.

 

[Erichalfbee]

No need. If you are using Apivar it's OK to use just that. It's just that I prefer not too. That time I used it after 7 vapes I got little drop so I suspect the OAV finally did it's job anyway.

 

[Swarm]

@Erichalfbee , I understand the reluctance to use chemicals and as I learn it's one of the things I'll reconsider given I only produce honey for the family to consume.

Whilst the strips are effective and stay in the hive for some 6-10 weeks, I wondered if they are slow to start working so when mite numbers are high then is it wise to use a vaporiser or another quick acting treatment to get mites under control first?

This will be my first winter so I'd like to go into it with a little less guesswork if I can. Thanks CP.

Be aware that the bees may well do a good job of welding the strips in place with propolis and wax. Take a pair of pliers to remove them and prise the frames apart before pulling on them to avoid killing bees.

 

[Hachi]

@echidna natural mite drop is the most ineffective method to determine mite load of a hive. ideally, alcohol wash or sugar roll is best.

 

[BernardBlack]

What are your thoughts on dusting colonies regularly with icing sugar to try and keep varroa numbers down?

I don’t vape. I’ve only used apiguard (and api-bioxal trickling at new year). I know it’s impossible to get through the beekeeping year without some sort of chemical use.

But might regular icing sugar dusting throughout the season help to reduce the need for chemical treatments?

 

[JamezF]

What are your thoughts on dusting colonies regularly with icing sugar to try and keep varroa numbers down?

As far as I'm aware it's been found to be ineffective.

James

 

[B_north]

But might regular icing sugar dusting throughout the season help to reduce the need for chemical treatments?

Randy Oliver in scientific beekeeping has a study on this, check it out. But I also believe he does not advocate for this method now.

I tried it once a few years ago but it needed to be done every day or so for a week for best results. The mites don't get killed they just drop therefor a screened board with oil is a must so they don't crawl back up.

I found, however, that all the sugar, and the long time the hive was open to do the treatments, contributed to a robbing fiasco for the duration. Not to mention the constant opening created very, very pi$$y bees. The results were less than stellar and both those hives died that winter.