Starting off with 2 nucs - advice please!

[Busybee123]

Hi, I'm new to beekeeping and currently doing a preliminary beekeeping course. I'm intending getting two nucs this spring. My question is:

Would I be better getting the two nucs from different sources (and thus have a bit of genetic variability in my bees)?

Or would I be better to get both nucs from the same source (and therefore reduce the risk of cross infection with any pests/diseases)?

I intend to use the two nucs as the basis to build up a few (maybe 6 to 8) colonies over the next couple of years. I live in the country and I don't believe there are any other beekeepers within a couple of miles or so.

Any advice greatly appreciated.

Tom

 

[Hombre]

I would buy my two nucs from the same trusted supplier and given that you want to expand them, feed them well.

Have extra equipment handy and ready for use. At the first sign of preparation for swarming, divide the affected colony into two, or if it is large enough - ask at the time - into three, with the queen and flying bees in one box and the other box/es with a queen cell. Feed until established.

Box means hive or nuc as appropriate. You should be able to end the season with between four and six colonies and little or no honey.

Assuming six colonies, In your second year do a shook swarm on two colonies, donating frames of brood to other colonies. Feed the shook swarm to enable it to draw out comb. These two colonies should be good for producing a honey crop and are unlikely to think of swarming much before the end of June.

The remaining four colonies can be treated as you wish, and used for making nucs or honey, depending on how you split them.

Decide on your strategy, honey or bees for this year as getting both will perhaps be a tall order. Next year you should be good for both increase and a healthy honey crop.

 

[oliver90owner]

I think hombre is just a little over-enthusiastic with splitting this years's nucs into 4 or 6 colonies for the winter. It could happen but would depend on the strain of bee, the initial strength of the colonies, the actual date of installation, the weather, forage availability and wasp activity, amongst others.

As you have obviously not yet arranged for these nucs, I doubt now that you would be likely (although not impossible) to purchase overwintered nucs. If the nucs are not so well balanced initially, they may need some time to develop and fill a brood box.

Indeed, some nucs may well give a fair honey crop at the end of the first season, but many may not - dependent on the factors above, and likely others.

In your first year your aim should be to arrive at winter with strong, healthy, well provisioned colonies and not risk losing more than you gain in that first season, by trying to over-stretch. BTDT.

I would suggest that if you are able to spit your new colonies, you obtain laying queens for the splits.

Regards, RAB

 

[thedeaddiplomat]

I am not qualified to advise on whether you should get nucs from the same or different sources.

But for year one, why not just focus on bringing those two to full strength and maturity, without worrying unduly about either how or whether to divide them? That could (unless a really good season produces vast numbers of bees - and thus some risk of late swarming) give you the chance to get used to handling bees, and feeling comfortable doing so. Year two would surely be plenty early enough to begin multiplying.

 

[Finman]

I
But for year one, why not just focus on bringing those two to full strength and maturity, without worrying unduly about either how or whether to divide them? .

That is a good advice. Beginners are too earger to split they small hives and then they ruin tha whole build up.

Nuc means a small colony and you need enough skills to get them up. But you have not skills yet.

Second question is that "do I feed them like piggs to get them pig." The answer will be feed feed and feed hurry up to put foundations...

Truth is that a small colony has its slow build up and feeding helps nothing. It only fills valuable combs.

If you have 5 frames in the hive, allways take care that they have about one full frame of food,

Keep the hives warm. Don't keep mesh floor open. Narrow gap is enough.

If you have 5 frames bees, and the box has 10 frames, put there an extra movable wall and learn how the colony expands.
Keep one oundation on side which they do not occupye. You see when they start to draw it and then add a new one.

When the bees fill the whole box, then it is able to take care itself.

 

[Tom Bick]

Finmans advice is spot on and you will do good to follow it.

Don’t run before you can walk comes to mind trust me you are stepping into uncharted waters and although everything is possible take your time start with two nucs this year and you will think it is easy two small easy to handle colonies but if they come through the first winter strong you will start next year with two full colonies it can be different ball game and you will still have plenty to learn.

You can keep splitting all you like but you have to learn how to handle a full colony and understand what is happening inside it before big expansion it will in my opinion make you a better beekeeper.

 

[Busybee123]

Thanks very much for your replies - it makes me realise just how much I have to learn!

I hope to get the nucs in May, so I was intending to build them up into full colonies before the end of the summer and would not expect to split them this year. I'd be very pleased to get some honey this year, but I know that is largely dependent on the weather, and the last couple of years have been below average.

I'm happy to take things at a fairly slow pace and gain experience as the colonies grow. I don't want to be too ambitious in my first year and my target for this year would be to go into the winter with two good strong colonies having had a modest honey harvest.

Maybe I'm wrong, but I imagined that if I get nucs in May I would (hopefully)not have any issues with swarming this year?

Coming back to my original question, if you were in my position would you try and get bith nucs from the same source, or get them from different sources?

Maybe it doesn't really matter, but my gut feeling originally was that getting from two different sources would be best because this would give me the best chance of at least one colony doing well and making it through next winter.

Tom

 

[Poly Hive]

Personally I would advise getting them from the same source but your choice of course.

There is a misconception that nucs won't swarm if built up to colonies. Some will not and some will it all depends on the swarminess of the bee strain.

I have had packages which offered to swarm the same year....

PH

 

[Tom Bick]

Yes nice and steady I think that is the way to go plenty to learn.

I f it was me I would go for two from the same supplier but if not possible to do that then go for the two separate suppliers.

Let them build up in their own time help them with syrup when and if they need it its easy to over do the syrup and they will do the rest.

 

[Finman]

Maybe I'm wrong, but I imagined that if I get nucs in May I would (hopefully)not have any issues with swarming this year?

The beekeeping is a skill where you must learn first how the colony develope. When you know that, you may guess what bees are going to do next. Then you lead their direction according their instincts. They are wild animal and they act various way.

Small hives are dangerous to the beginner. They swarm easily when you follow wrong advices or not follow the hive build up.

Near a good nectar source 5 -10 frame colony fill itself in few days and then swarm when there is no room for eggs or nectar. A swarm may leave even if they have not queen cells.

May is real summer in UK but surely someone says feed it!!!. But let them get food from nature. It fills the tiny hive too. In USA guys keep feeding bottle the whole summer and then they wonder why nucs swarm.

One thing is that bees do not draw foundations more than they can. It is vain to "encourage" them to draw combs. They do it when they need new combs.

.

 

[Busybee123]

Ok, I'll try and get both nucs from the same source if possible.I'll be putting them in national hives and giving them extra frames of foundation as required, and hope they behave themselves!

Thanks to all who posted on this thread - this forum really is an excellent resource and source of information.

Cheers,

Tom

 

[Hombre]

I think hombre is just a little over-enthusiastic with splitting this years's nucs into 4 or 6 colonies for the winter. It could happen but would depend on the strain of bee, the initial strength of the colonies, the actual date of installation, the weather, forage availability and wasp activity, amongst others.

Regards, RAB

Guilty as charged I fear, I'm thinking of box that will be bristling in a month and probably Carniolans too. That and a dose of optimism along with available mated queens.

SHEER OPTIMISM

 

[Finman]

.
First year and splitting hives to 6. It would be a terrible mistake from those who advice to do that. It is easy to multiply a cat because it makes it itself.

What if he has 6 hives on second beekeeping year. What happens then without experience? Perhaps 36 hives on second year?

 

[Rosti]

.
What if he has 6 hives on second beekeeping year. What happens then without experience? Perhaps 36 hives on second year?

What happens? some equipment supplier has a large kit order!

Already said here but I'd concentrate on getting them strong for winter and if a swarming situation occurs then manage it and take advantage (which means kitting up for it in advance); but I would seriously consider recombining to 2 for winter if it happened after the end of June (you'll still have got some experience and drawn comb out of the episode, both of which will be valuable to you)

 

[isc26]

Was in the same position last year. Got 2 nucs each from different suppliers.

Firstly glad I got two.

Secondly, personally glad I had two different, albeit both local, colonies. The massive differences between the 2 colonies and how they do just about everything is so marked that it makes you realise that a bit like kids nature is just as important as nurture and that if things go right or wrong you are only partly responsible for the outcomes.

 

[roymichaeldean]

2 Nucs

Hi

I also started out with 2 nucs last August and I am glad I did cos one died...but it was interesting to compare and gave me more insight into bee behaviour

roy

 

[Vergilius]

Ok, I'll try and get both nucs from the same source if possible.I'll be putting them in national hives and giving them extra frames of foundation as required, and hope they behave themselves!

Thanks to all who posted on this thread - this forum really is an excellent resource and source of information.

Cheers,

Tom

Yeah... Don't be afraid to ask loads of questions... but bee prepared for about 4 different answers!!!

Ben P