Someone put me straight..please?

[Bosleeu]

Could robbing the honey and replacing it with sugar over winter be detrimental to the bees?

Many beekeepers seem not to think so, as there are endless threads about the making of syrup and the feeding of bees (when needed) on the forum.

Many are of the belief that bees overwinter better on sugar than honey. They are actually very similar, even if they taste different.

 

[Travelator]

Could robbing the honey and replacing it with sugar over winter be detrimental to the bees?

Well, we know that bees get protein plus various other nutrients from pollen, and this is the same whehter or not they are fed syrup.

We also know that 99% of honey is sugar and water. The other 1% is vitamins, amino acids, aromatic compounds etc. So you are basically suggesting that this 1% contains secret ingredients that are important for bee health - and you are most probably right. HOWEVER, I think it's important to get your feeding priorities in the right order and I suggest the right order is as follows:

1. Plenty of sugar stockpiled (In order of decreasing desirability: own honey, syrup, fondant).
2. Convenient water source.
3. Good access to pollen in late autumn and early spring (or failing that, pollen patties or other protein source)
4. It the above are all covered, now start worrying about the trace ingredients of honey.

 

[TryingToLetThemBee]

Many beekeepers seem not to think so, as there are endless threads about the making of syrup and the feeding of bees (when needed) on the forum.

Many are of the belief that bees overwinter better on sugar than honey. They are actually very similar, even if they taste different.

An advantage of "sugar" is that it is potentially thymolated syrup. That gives known, direct, measurable benefits that honey does not.

 

[Bosleeu]

An advantage of "sugar" is that it is potentially thymolated syrup. That gives known, direct, measurable benefits that honey does not.

Too right.

It also does not crystallise like ivy honey that the bees are packing away at the moment. My bees definitely eat their sugar frames before they eat ivy - it's a real pain in Spring with all the clogged up comb the bees seem reluctant to eat.

 

[TryingToLetThemBee]

Too right.

It also does not crystallise like ivy honey that the bees are packing away at the moment. My bees definitely eat their sugar frames before they eat ivy - it's a real pain in Spring with all the clogged up comb the bees seem reluctant to eat.

what do you do? Soak it?

 

[Bosleeu]

what do you do? Soak it?

You can soak it in warm water or use the hose, with varied results depending on how hard it is. Some are almost useless but I use a lot of foundationless comb, so I just cut the ivy- comb out and extract the wax. Especially if it's old comb.

I then give the frames with about an inch of comb on the top bar to strong colonies to give them something to do. Helps with swarming, comb rotation and gets rid of the pasty ivy.

 

[TryingToLetThemBee]

So old comb for ivy supers; good call, thanks (I use mediums all round as per Michael Bush).

 

[Dishmop]

well, it does come back then to Itchy's original question...

Could robbing the honey and replacing it with sugar over winter be detrimental to the bees?

Rather in the same vein as "do they die if you dont treat them"

We dont know.

 

[Itchy]

I suspect bees have been overwintering on ivy honey for a long time. Sugar and water? Just because everyone does it, doesn't mean it's ok.

 

[Dishmop]

I suspect bees have been overwintering on ivy honey for a long time. Sugar and water? Just because everyone does it, doesn't mean it's ok.

It works tho.

 

[TryingToLetThemBee]

Sugar and water?

Sugar, thymol, lecithin and water.

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

Sugar, thymol, lecithin and water.

And like all proper health foods - a smidgeon of alcohol

 

[wessexmario]

I'm not convinced that there is no difference.
I often find it useful to make a human comparison...

Someone will survive, might choose, and even enjoy, a diet of coke & crisps, and beer & chips. That doesn't mean it's the best diet for them, nor that it will not have severe consequences for their health in later life.

 

[Bosleeu]

I'm not convinced that there is no difference.
I often find it useful to make a human comparison...

Someone will survive, might choose, and even enjoy, a diet of coke & crisps, and beer & chips. That doesn't mean it's the best diet for them, nor that it will not have severe consequences for their health in later life.

You are right there is a difference, just not the way you think it does.

Humans and bees are very different creatures, and although I think we can get inspiration from the way they live and work, they cannot be compared to us. When you think about what's best for bees, think about bees, not humans.

 

[mbc]

This utterly nonsensical romantic notion that you're somehow better than Mr. Jones down the street because you refuse to harvest as much of this lovely, healthy, nutritious, God given food for humans as you can, is nothing but a smelly dribble out of urban media driven fluffy bunny bottoms IMHO
Get a life, you are not holier than anybody else, just wrapped up in self delusion.

 

[Teemore]

Given the availability of ivy pollen and nectar (along with a few other sources) at the time when some beekeepers supplement their bees' Winter stores with syrup, I would think it extremely rare that any managed colony goes into Winter with stores that are only made up of sugar syrup. It is easy to distinguish the different types of stores once they are capped. When undertaking Spring inspections, the remaining stores frames that I have encountered in stocks (sometimes removing an excess and sometimes uncapping the stores and dipping the frames in warm water to encourage the bees to use/move the stores) have been a mix of syrup and stored honey.

Something to think about: Dr. Dave Tarpy recounted a story about an urban beekeeper in the States who, at some stage in the recent past, extracted blue honey. He wasn't near an M&M factory but he was near a softball field and it transpired that his bees were merrily foraging on the blue slushys that had been dropped by the spectators at softball matches. They took advantage of an available food source that the foraging scouts and colony clearly found acceptable.

PS - just spotted MBC's reason for editing.

 

[TryingToLetThemBee]

.

PS - just spotted MBC's reason for editing.

He's just trying to get on the cool-kids list....

OP: they're your bees. In this case, you can make your own decision. Michael Bush "feeds" them honey over winter on the "lazy beekeeper" principle. I would avoid deliberately stirring a controversy in the beginners' section in future, though.

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

This utterly nonsensical romantic notion that you're somehow better than Mr. Jones down the street because you refuse to harvest as much of this lovely, healthy, nutritious, God given food for humans as you can, is nothing but a smelly dribble out of urban media driven fluffy bunny bottoms IMHO
Get a life, you are not holier than anybody else, just wrapped up in self delusion.

 

[mbc]

He's just trying to get on the cool-kids list....

The sentiment is genuine, do what you like with your own bees but going around acting superior to beekeepers who actually feed lots of people deserves a good dose of not having enough food for a while IMHO, that reality check would soon sort out the faux "do goody" nonsense.

Bees like a bit of turnaround, mostly they'll be better off for a sensible(sensible is in the eye of the beholder?!) bit of harvesting.
As it happens, I'd put money on my bees getting much less tate and lyle than the average UK managed colonies, but you wont find me looking down my nose at the heavy feeders, horses for courses and all that!

 

[wessexmario]

very poetic , but I was hoping for a more scientific answer based on

I'm not trying to be 'superior' (where'd you get that idea from?), I'm asking an open question as to what the differences are in the nutrition from a bee created store compared to a human provided syrup.