Soft Set problem

[Mandeville]

I tried making soft set honey a couple of months ago - first time I've done this. The first batch went fine, but the pictures show what has happened to the second lot. Can anyone tell me what I did wrong please?

 

[Erichalfbee]

I tried making soft set honey a couple of months ago - first time I've done this. The first batch went fine, but the pictures show what has happened to the second lot. Can anyone tell me what I did wrong please?

It’s frosting due to air bubbles.
Fatshark has a little piece on it here
https://theapiarist.org/frosting-in-honey/

 

[Ian123]

And there was me thinking frosting is caused by shrinkage/crystals forming!!!!! Not air bubbles. Once mixed allow to thicken in your bottling tank to the point you worry about getting it out, much depends on temperature. This obviously allows time for bubbles to rise but I don’t think that’s true frosting. It also means crystals start to form and the majority of the shrinkage takes place in the tank not the jar.

 

[Erichalfbee]

And there was me thinking frosting is caused by shrinkage/crystals forming!!!!! Not air bubbles.

I understood those crystals formed at the air honey interface which is what I meant. It’s never happened to my honey except at the top.

 

[Mandeville]

Thanks for the Fatshark link - that's very helpful.

I did try really hard not to introduce air bubbles - I used a corkscrew type mixer which I thought was going slow and gentle enough not to be incorporating much air.
And I did leave it for about 48 hours before bottling - as Ian said, it was beginning to set and I was worried about being able to get it out of the bucket. (I actually enjoyed bottling it - so much easier to handle than the runny stuff!!)

One interesting thing which I didn't mention is that round 1lb jars are much worse affected that the 8oz hex jars. The 8oz jars just have the frosting on the top surface.

 

[Ian123]

Hi Eric I yes that’s it I think, it was more a comment on fat sharks air getting trapped, I always thought it was air gaps forming created by shrinkage and crystals forming but it’s really not an issue!

 

[Beefriendly]

Thanks for the Fatshark link - that's very helpful.

I did try really hard not to introduce air bubbles - I used a corkscrew type mixer which I thought was going slow and gentle enough not to be incorporating much air. .

No matter how slowly you run a drill type mixer you will incorporate air.
Letting the bubbles rise to the top is not the answer IMO, it takes for ever and you often still end up with jars with a thin layer of froth on top. I used to use one of these Honey Creamers from Thornes which does an amazing job.

You use it like a potato masher but don't let the top come above the surface of the honey. It's hard work as you need to "work" the honey for 5 minutes or so on a regular basis for a couple of days before bottling...Working it regularly keeps breaking the crystal size down as they shear as they pass through the openings on the paddle..But it's hard work and monotonous...which is why I bought a machine that does the job for me.
In a few seconds there will be several posts saying you don't need to to do all of this....Suggest you try it with an ordinary potato masher and I suspect you will be very pleasantly surprised as to how velvety smooth the finished product is. I only make approx 700lbs of soft set honey a year so I obviously don't have a clue what I'm talking about

 

[For want of a better word]

So what is the difference between soft set and creamed honey?
Or is it one of those North / South things as everyone seems to sell soft set honey in these parts, there is even a whole you tube video dedicated on how to make the perfect soft set honey.

 

[Ian123]

No matter how slowly you run a drill type mixer you will incorporate air.
Letting the bubbles rise to the top is not the answer IMO, it takes for ever and you often still end up with jars with a thin layer of froth on top. I used to use one of these Honey Creamers from Thornes which does an amazing job.

You use it like a potato masher but don't let the top come above the surface of the honey. It's hard work as you need to "work" the honey for 5 minutes or so on a regular basis for a couple of days before bottling...Working it regularly keeps breaking the crystal size down as they shear as they pass through the openings on the paddle..But it's hard work and monotonous...which is why I bought a machine that does the job for me.
In a few seconds there will be several posts saying you don't need to to do all of this....Suggest you try it with an ordinary potato masher and I suspect you will be very pleasantly surprised as to how velvety smooth the finished product is. I only make approx 700lbs of soft set honey a year so I obviously don't have a clue what I'm talking about

That’s all I’ve ever used!!

 

[drex]

I find it is worse if the honey is run into cold jars.

 

[Erichalfbee]

You use it like a potato masher but don't let the top come above the surface of the honey.

Yes, you’ve mentioned this previously.
I must try it

 

[Erichalfbee]

So what is the difference between soft set and creamed honey?
Or is it one of those North / South things as everyone seems to sell soft set honey in these parts, there is even a whole you tube video dedicated on how to make the perfect soft set honey.

None except the former is a legal definition the latter, not

 

[Erichalfbee]

What is the recommended course of action to remedy OP’s honey?
Melt and start again?

 

[Ian123]

Well it won’t affect the taste so keep it for home/relatives you don’t like...should go pretty quick

 

[Mandeville]

Regrettably, most of my family don't really like honey! And those that do, have got enough to keep them going for several years -I had a bumper crop last season.

I think melting it is probably what I'm going to have to do. I was thinking of trying FatShark's suggestion of just softening it enough to stir it up a bit, but .... won't that just introduce yet more air?

 

[ics19]

Fatshark has a little piece on it

OK, I'm going to regret asking this, but where does the Fatshark reference come from?

 

[Ian123]

Link in second post on first page to the fat shark..Mandeville air would cause some of the froth under lid but not the frosting so try a stir you have nothing to lose. Or warm the jars and place a baking rack over a bucket. Turn jars upside down and allow to drain....jars into dishwasher and rebottle

 

[Angry_Mob]

OK, I'm going to regret asking this, but where does the Fatshark reference come from?

Fatshark runs The Apiarist blog; well worth a read.

 

[Erichalfbee]

OK, I'm going to regret asking this, but where does the Fatshark reference come from?

As angry mob has said and David is a forum member here

 

[ics19]

Fatshark

Thanks all - I hadn't twigged the username - doh! Yes, good stuff on http://theapiarist.org, I've followed the soft-set process from there with warmed jars etc and fingers crossed on minimal frosting so far. This churner is working well (for 30lb buckets anyway).