Should I feed colony which already has 4 frames of stores?

[ksjs]

Did my first inspection of the year last week and it seems that my single (hopefully soon to be two) colony made it through my first winter as a beekeeper. Well done bees!

Loads of larvae at all stages and bubbling with lots downy bees. I haven't fed the bees at all during winter or spring (I was hefting and all felt OK). They have been very active on and off for a couple of months - we've had some great days and there was a 4/5 day spell of summer about 4 weeks ago. I've added a super to give some room for expansion.

They have 4 'perfect' (untouched) frames of honey at the moment and this seems lots given time of year. I may however be making novice assumptions so I'm wondering if I should really be feeding them? Possibly to help drawing out the super (fresh foundation)?

Thanks.

 

[gavin]

Most wouldn't, assuming that you'd like to take a crop of honey rather than sugar syrup off. Four frames is ample to take them through a bad patch.

 

[Finman]

They have 4 'perfect' (untouched) frames of honey at the moment and this seems lots given time of year. I may however be making novice assumptions so I'm wondering if I should really be feeding them? Possibly to help drawing out the super (fresh foundation)?

Thanks.

you lazy pal!

You shoud take 2 food frames off and give more space to lay.
And you have super there!

Have you any bees in super? has it been there the whole winter - first inspection.

You should look your bees more often and learn something.

.

 

[drex]

4 full frames of stores so that leaves 7 for brood. If they were crammed full with brood, that could be the time to add a super, but sounds like you beginner enthusiasm has led you astray a little.

4 frames of stores should be plenty, so why feed more?. But saying that one of my strong colonies on brood and half, with ample stores at last weekly inspection, had very little stores this time. They are surrounded by OSR in bloom, so starving in midst of plenty, as it is too cold for them to get out!

 

[Finman]

4 full frames of stores so that leaves 7 for brood. If they were crammed full with brood, that could be the time to add a super, but sounds like you beginner enthusiasm has led you astray a little.

4 frames of stores should be plenty, so why feed more?. But saying that one of my strong colonies on brood and half, with ample stores at last weekly inspection, had very little stores this time. They are surrounded by OSR in bloom, so starving in midst of plenty, as it is too cold for them to get out!

it is better be so if guy look his hies twice a year.

What ever on your cold isle. In my warm land (Finland) i take extra food away so that brood box has allways 2 full food frame, but not more. When they are finish, I give more. Sometimes hives are empty at the end of June.

Starving and starving, feeding and feeding. but hive cannot be blocked with stores for bad days.
They swarm. It is so simple on the rape field.

I have here snow on ground. No pollen. My hives will not starve. I take care of them.
Now I go and give to them pollen patty.
.

 

[Swarm]

Ksjs,
They have 4 frames in the BB that are preventing expansion is what Finman is saying. Even in the super, the bees will only draw what the colony requires. Try bruising two inner stores frames to encourage the bees to move it as doing so will allow room for the colony to increase.
Congrats on bringing them through the Winter and have fun this year.

 

[Finman]

.
I would take 2 food frames off and then two foundation frames in BB INSTEAD.
On these weathers I would put new box under the Bb. Bees occupye it when they are able to do it.

 

[gavin]

You'll have to excuse Finman, he lives far away. I would say well done for resisting the temptation to inspect until now.

What Finman might not appreciate is the effect of the weather lately. That cold spell will have reduced egg laying and you might have quite a bit of space in that brood box.

Given that it is likely to stay cold for a while, I'd leave them with the 4 frames of stores for now and take away any spare when the weather picks up. When it is warm enough and they need the space they will draw the foundation in the super. No need to open stores for them - they will do it themselves when they are ready. If the brood box is getting full at that point they will move stores upstairs. If it is last year's honey, great. If it is syrup you might like to take a couple of frames away when they look like using the super properly and when it looks like they are bringing nectar in.

 

[oliver90owner]

Try bruising two inner stores frames to encourage the bees to move it as doing so will allow room for the colony to increase.

Before jumping the gun and getting the wrong conclusions....

We might need to know whether these stores are honey or sugar syrup. No real point moving sugar syrup up into a super. Secondly, the poster wants to split the colony (post #1: "...it seems that my single (hopefully soon to be two) colony ...; It would seem so eminently sensible to give them more spacenow, by removing a couple of stores frames, and retain those frames removed ready and available for feeding a nuc, if that is how the OP intends to increase. I would recommend a split at the time of an A/S , should that ber the route the OP wishes to use for increase. There are, of course, several options available for increase.

 

[Finman]

.
If you have douple brood boxes, you could give brood size foundations under the brood box and those 2 extra food frames in the lower box in the middle of box.
When bees start to occupye the foundations, they would consume those winter food frames when drawing coms.

Just for altenatives...

It depends how weathers continue. We have here just snow raining.

.

 

[ksjs]

you lazy pal!

You shoud take 2 food frames off and give more space to lay.
And you have super there!

Have you any bees in super? has it been there the whole winter - first inspection.

You should look your bees more often and learn something.

.

What do I do with the 2 frames of honey I take off? Just keep them sitting around until winter?

Super only on since end of March, only a few bees in there when I looked, no work started on drawing out comb yet.

My understanding was that there is nothing to be gained by looking at bees during winter so I don't open them up etc.

 

[ksjs]

4 frames of stores should be plenty, so why feed more?. But saying that one of my strong colonies on brood and half, with ample stores at last weekly inspection, had very little stores this time. They are surrounded by OSR in bloom, so starving in midst of plenty, as it is too cold for them to get out!

Will keep an eye and see how they get on with what they've got.

 

[ksjs]

Starving and starving, feeding and feeding. but hive cannot be blocked with stores for bad days. They swarm. It is so simple on the rape field.
.

I don't really understand what you're saying, is it something like: keep stores to a minimum and if they then need food you feed them?

If yes I'm not sure I actually want to manage my bees in this way.

 

[ksjs]

Ksjs,
They have 4 frames in the BB that are preventing expansion is what Finman is saying. Even in the super, the bees will only draw what the colony requires. Try bruising two inner stores frames to encourage the bees to move it as doing so will allow room for the colony to increase.
Congrats on bringing them through the Winter and have fun this year.

Thanks! Surely if they need room they'll just shift honey to super?

Maybe though I do need to remove some stores - they were really overflowing on the frames with brood and seemed very keen to stick only to these.

 

[ksjs]

You'll have to excuse Finman, he lives far away. I would say well done for resisting the temptation to inspect until now.

What Finman might not appreciate is the effect of the weather lately. That cold spell will have reduced egg laying and you might have quite a bit of space in that brood box.

Given that it is likely to stay cold for a while, I'd leave them with the 4 frames of stores for now and take away any spare when the weather picks up. When it is warm enough and they need the space they will draw the foundation in the super. No need to open stores for them - they will do it themselves when they are ready. If the brood box is getting full at that point they will move stores upstairs. If it is last year's honey, great. If it is syrup you might like to take a couple of frames away when they look like using the super properly and when it looks like they are bringing nectar in.

Good post - thanks. Anyone know how to tell difference between sugar stores and honey?

 

[ksjs]

It would seem so eminently sensible to give them more spacenow, by removing a couple of stores frames, and retain those frames removed ready and available for feeding a nuc, if that is how the OP intends to increase. I would recommend a split at the time of an A/S , should that ber the route the OP wishes to use for increase. There are, of course, several options available for increase.

That's what I had been planning (using A/S) so will follow people's suggestion of taking off 2 frames so I can allow for a happy nuc.

 

[aberreef]

Have you got a Queen excluder in place? If so it may be worth removing it for a week or so to encourage the bees to move into it and start drawing the foundation. Spraying the foundation lightly with light sugar syrup also helps. It's a little cool for good comb drawing but they will if they need to.

The cappings on stored sugar syrup looks different to honey stores. They are pasty, unpleasant looking IMO. If the 4 frames are capped then you could freeze the 2 you want to take out.

As someone has already stated, there's a danger of the brood box being blocked by too much stores which can lead to swarming. Once the bees draw the super then they will sort themselves out, helped along with bruising stores if necessary

Last thing, don't be offended by Finman. He is extremely knowledgable where bees are concerned but sometimes I think meaning is lost in translation and he comes across the wrong way What he's getting at is not to feed the bees so much that you block the brood area. They will be out forraging for themselves on hedgerows, dandelion and rape (if you've got any locally). If they are on Rape then they will quickly fill the box given half decent weather and then swarm.

 

[Swarm]

Before jumping the gun and getting the wrong conclusions....

We might need to know whether these stores are honey or sugar syrup. No real point moving sugar syrup up into a super.

Read the OP again, he hasn't fed his bees.

Ksjs, I mentioned bruising because bees are sometimes reluctant to open sealed stores and Finman is suggesting excess stores frames could cause confinement, which could lead to swarming. This does happen, my first colony did just that.

 

[Finman]

.

Those food frames take 40% out of brood space.
Nothing alarming in the head?

.
One box hive needs 2 food store frames and not more.
If it has not, feed it. A full langstroth frame has 2-2,5 kg food.

 

[oliver90owner]

Read the OP again, he hasn't fed his bees.

I did read it - very carefully and don't need to 'read it again'. Perhaps you should concentrate on this sentence:

I haven't fed the bees at all during winter or spring (I was hefting and all felt OK

If you can show me any mention of whether or not they were fed for the winter during autumn, I would be very impressed. Until then I am decidedly unimpressed and suggest you learn to read the facts given with more than a tad more precision.