Selling honey at the gate: is weight info on the label mandatory?

[Amari]

The density of honey is 42.37g per fluid ounce. Assuming your jars are 12 fluid ounce jars then you don't have a problem because 12 fluid ounces should hold 508g of honey, i.e more than 1lb in weight. Just check your jars will hold 1lb of honey to confirm and if so no need to change your labels.

That's a very clever suggestion Karol! The minute my 12 oz jars arrive I'll check it out and report back.

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

The density of honey is 42.37g per fluid ounce. Assuming your jars are 12 fluid ounce jars then you don't have a problem because 12 fluid ounces should hold 508g of honey, i.e more than 1lb in weight. Just check your jars will hold 1lb of honey to confirm and if so no need to change your labels.

So in that case then - how much honey does a 16oz jar actually hold?
Adopting this logic should mean we need to change all our 16oz jar labels to 668g !!

 

[Boston Bees]

So in that case then - how much honey does a 16oz jar actually hold?
Adopting this logic should mean we need to change all our 16oz jar labels to 668g !!

If that is the weight of honey in the jar, that seems reasonable (indeed, obligatory)?

I don't know if it is though.

EDIT: As Amari points out below, I suspect these jars are made so that the stated weight is roughly correct if it is filled with jam/honey etc, rather than water. So, no need to change your label!

 

[Amari]

So in that case then - how much honey does a 16oz jar actually hold?
Adopting this logic should mean we need to change all our 16oz jar labels to 668g !!

That's a very clever suggestion Karol! The minute my 12 oz jars arrive I'll check it out and report back.

I've just found a 12 oz hex in the shed. Weight empty = 7 1/2 oz (214g)
Weight full of runny summer honey = 1 lb 4 3/8 oz (580g)
Conclusion: a 12 oz hex does not hold 1 lb honey.

Further experiment: a 12 oz hex holds well under 12 fluid ounces of water.

Conclusion: 12 oz hex = 12 oz of honey (weight) not 12 fluid ounces (volume).

QED

 

[Wilco]

What the regulations actually say is that all the statutory information must be visible in the one field so it can be on the front, side, back, top, or even (technically) on the bottom

As in all together? If so obviously one rule for us... Many of the major preserve makers etc. put lot and BBE on the lid or base not with the rest of the label...

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

Many of the major preserve makers etc. put lot and BBE on the lid or base not with the rest of the label...

That is fine - as long as there is an indication on the label as to where the BBE date is, all my labels state 'for best before, see base' then I stick a separate label on the base with BBE date and lot Number however a lot number number is not mandatory as long as the BBE date is in the DD:MM:YY format

 

[enrico]

I now keep one jar of any labelled honey. I know which batch it was from the label. At least if someone brings back a fermenting jar I can go and look at mine from the same batch and compare them.

 

[bobba]

I now keep one jar of any labelled honey. I know which batch it was from the label. At least if someone brings back a fermenting jar I can go and look at mine from the same batch and compare them.

I have now had several customers specifically request unlabeled jars. Its usually the same customers who was and return the jars.

So this year I was going to oblige these customers, but thanks for the tip enrico, I will now use a black pen and pop a batch no. on the bottom, just in case I have any problems.

I actually had my first "problem" recently too. A customer who ordered 50 jars complained that I had cut my honey with sugar! They could tell it had sugar in it because it was going thick and hard and she could see bits of sugar growing on the insides of the jars. She had apparently stored it in a fridge to keep it fresh too....

So luckily not a serious problem. But she took a lot of convincing before she believed it is a natural process that a lot of honey will do. There was over a week of back and forth with many links being sent.

But defo going to put a batch number on the bottom and hang on to 1 from each lot in case I get any real problems.

 

[PeaBee]

I have now had several customers specifically request unlabeled jars. Its usually the same customers who was and return the jars.

So this year I was going to oblige these customers, but thanks for the tip enrico, I will now use a black pen and pop a batch no. on the bottom, just in case I have any problems.

I actually had my first "problem" recently too. A customer who ordered 50 jars complained that I had cut my honey with sugar! They could tell it had sugar in it because it was going thick and hard and she could see bits of sugar growing on the insides of the jars. She had apparently stored it in a fridge to keep it fresh too....

So luckily not a serious problem. But she took a lot of convincing before she believed it is a natural process that a lot of honey will do. There was over a week of back and forth with many links being sent.

But defo going to put a batch number on the bottom and hang on to 1 from each lot in case I get any real problems.

Pretty sure you have to sell them with a label with the prescribed info. As you are sell reasonably large quantities (50 to one customer) not sure you could plead any sort of exemption if one of your customers complained and went to trading standards. If it was me I would politely say that I have to provide them with a label on due to the regs.
Thats my interpretation of the guidance and regs anyway.
" Prepacked honey must be labelled with its name, the name and address of the producer / packer, country of origin, storage conditions, a best-before date, lot mark, and weight marking"
https://www.bromley.gov.uk/leaflet/122623/3/757/d

 

[Worldsend]

Oh yes artisan -the new phrase around here is ethical

 

[Worldsend]

I have now had several customers specifically request unlabeled jars. Its usually the same customers who was and return the jars.

So this year I was going to oblige these customers, but thanks for the tip enrico, I will now use a black pen and pop a batch no. on the bottom, just in case I have any problems.

I actually had my first "problem" recently too. A customer who ordered 50 jars complained that I had cut my honey with sugar! They could tell it had sugar in it because it was going thick and hard and she could see bits of sugar growing on the insides of the jars. She had apparently stored it in a fridge to keep it fresh too....

So luckily not a serious problem. But she took a lot of convincing before she believed it is a natural process that a lot of honey will do. There was over a week of back and forth with many links being sent.

But defo going to put a batch number on the bottom and hang on to 1 from each lot in case I get any real problems.

If she is buying 50 jars is she selling them on?

 

[bobba]

Pretty sure you have to sell them with a label with the prescribed info. As you are sell reasonably large quantities (50 to one customer) not sure you could plead any sort of exemption if one of your customers complained and went to trading standards. If it was me I would politely say that I have to provide them with a label on due to the regs.
Thats my interpretation of the guidance and regs anyway.
" Prepacked honey must be labelled with its name, the name and address of the producer / packer, country of origin, storage conditions, a best-before date, lot mark, and weight marking"
https://www.bromley.gov.uk/leaflet/122623/3/757/d

If she is buying 50 jars is she selling them on?

She is a good friend of my wife and I asked exactly the same questions when she ordered so many. She got 10 jars last spring and 40 at the end of summer, so took a good % of my total harvest, and is by far my largest customer. I give a lot to neighbors and family, so she accounts for a even higher % of sales.

Apparently she has a very wealthy husband, so funding is not a concern for her. She says her family can easily eat 1 jar per week, yes, I asked - 1 teenage kid and husband does not eat honey. So her and her daughter can apparently eat 400g of honey per week!

She said she had 6 jars left, 2 of witch were christening, and the cutting with sugar shenanigans happened about a month ago, so her estimates were not far wrong. She has been asking weekly when I will have some more.

What actually made the whole sugar cutting allegation worse was that my wife also thought that honey only went hard if it was cut with sugar.... So I had to convince her first.

What amazed me was the fact she said she kept it in the fridge! I wondeded how she had made it so long with out it going hard. She said it did not go straight in the fridge when she got it. But says she put it in when she had about 12 jars left on the recommendation of a friend.

 

[bobba]

Pretty sure you have to sell them with a label with the prescribed info. As you are sell reasonably large quantities (50 to one customer) not sure you could plead any sort of exemption if one of your customers complained and went to trading standards. If it was me I would politely say that I have to provide them with a label on due to the regs.
Thats my interpretation of the guidance and regs anyway.
" Prepacked honey must be labelled with its name, the name and address of the producer / packer, country of origin, storage conditions, a best-before date, lot mark, and weight marking"
https://www.bromley.gov.uk/leaflet/122623/3/757/d

All was labeled to regs last year, even stuff given to neighbors/family. But if I know the person well enough that they already have my phone number, then I am just doing batch numbers.

If not then I want my label and phone number on that jar, I have got some orders that way already.

 

[enrico]

She is a good friend of my wife and I asked exactly the same questions when she ordered so many. She got 10 jars last spring and 40 at the end of summer, so took a good % of my total harvest, and is by far my largest customer. I give a lot to neighbors and family, so she accounts for a even higher % of sales.

Apparently she has a very wealthy husband, so funding is not a concern for her. She says her family can easily eat 1 jar per week, yes, I asked - 1 teenage kid and husband does not eat honey. So her and her daughter can apparently eat 400g of honey per week!

She said she had 6 jars left, 2 of witch were christening, and the cutting with sugar shenanigans happened about a month ago, so her estimates were not far wrong. She has been asking weekly when I will have some more.

What actually made the whole sugar cutting allegation worse was that my wife also thought that honey only went hard if it was cut with sugar.... So I had to convince her first.

What amazed me was the fact she said she kept it in the fridge! I wondeded how she had made it so long with out it going hard. She said it did not go straight in the fridge when she got it. But says she put it in when she had about 12 jars left on the recommendation of a friend.

I add an additional label to all my jars with extra info about my hives, how honey may cloud and set and how to store it. I can post a copy if you want.

 

[gmonag]

I do the same.

Most natural honey will crystallise over time. The taste is not affected. To liquify again, heat the open jar in a pan of water to 40°C max or in a microwave oven on defrost setting. Do not refrigerate. Do not feed to infants under one year old. ​

 

[bobba]

I add an additional label to all my jars with extra info about my hives, how honey may cloud and set and how to store it. I can post a copy if you want.

I do the same.

Most natural honey will crystallise over time. The taste is not affected. To liquify again, heat the open jar in a pan of water to 40°C max or in a microwave oven on defrost setting. Do not refrigerate. Do not feed to infants under one year old.​

Thanks guys.

Most my paying customers get about 4-6 jars and I post it to them. For these customers I put a little letter in the box about where my hives are kept and the fact they are urban bees bla bla bla. I even say when the super that produced the honey in each batch went on and off the hive. So will be adding as above. I could do without anymore sugar cutting allegations.

That's all good in theory, but there is potentially one little problem..............she cannot read english

I am sure her daughter or husband will read it for her though.

 

[Erichalfbee]

Most my paying customers get about 4-6 jars and I post it to them.

I post in one litre plastic tubs...can I ask how you courier them and how much you charge for P/P 6 jars?

 

[bobba]

I post in one litre plastic tubs...can I ask how you courier them and how much you charge for P/P 6 jars?

I put mine in 400g jars as pictured on the left. So the glass gets quite weighty. And insane amounts of bubble wrap and other packaging are needed too. Luckily I get old boxes and packaging from work so have been building up a stash in the loft.

Wife handles the shipping and costs so I am not exactly sure.

I know she uses DHL and UPS but have seen her using other corsairs on occasion too.

So the cost to end user can be very high, particularly as some only order 1 jar. But that's why most order several jars.

Plastic tubs to save on weight is a good idea. And I may consider offering something like that in the future.

 

[victor meldrew]

Jars must be sold in lbs or fractions of a lb and clearly displayed .
the metric equivalents in grams .

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

Jars must be sold in lbs or fractions of a lb

Not any more - and hasn't been for years