Re-combining after a split

[Do224]

It seems a lot of people do this, but I’m confused as to why/if it works…

If you find swarm cells and make a split, can you simply re-combine the colonies a few weeks down the line? Won’t this just create the exact same conditions that instigated swarm preps in the first place?

 

[Antipodes]

It seems a lot of people do this, but I’m confused as to why/if it works…

If you find swarm cells and make a split, can you simply re-combine the colonies a few weeks down the line? Won’t this just create the exact same conditions that instigated swarm preps in the first place?

I wait to recombine until after the longest day.

 

[Heather]

No, they have got swarm mode out of their thinking, so just remove the poorer /older of the two queens and as long as you give them plenty of work to do, just newspaper join back together- queen right underneath..... those of us who don't rejoin end up with too many hives..
BUT always keep at least 2 colonies..(heir and spare)

 

[enrico]

You don't have to combine but your colony numbers will roughly double every year.
2,4,8,16,32,64, bee farmer!

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

join back together- queen right underneath

makes no difference whether she's above or beneath, it's just whatever is most convenient.

 

[4degreesWest]

makes no difference whether she's above or beneath, it's just whatever is most convenient.

When they recombine will they move into the upper or the lower brood box or fill all the available space?

 

[blackcloud]

They will settle back to their own individual colony size which depends on how fast the queen is laying.
They may well occupy the centre of both boxes

 

[Do224]

They will settle back to their own individual colony size which depends on how fast the queen is laying.
They may well occupy the centre of both boxes

So if you just want a single bb colony you would shake all the bees down into the bottom box? How long after installing the newspaper should this be done?

 

[enrico]

So if you just want a single bb colony you would shake all the bees down into the bottom box? How long after installing the newspaper should this be done?

Ok, let's presume you have a BB and super on each. For the combine you would have, from the bottom up, floor, BB, QE, super, QE , paper, brood box, QE, super, crown board, roof. After they have combined you can either put the two brood boxes together as the queen will be in one them, or sort them so that you take out any brood less frames, in which case you need to know the queen is in the BB. Then put on the QE then both supers on top. Easy!
This post has been amended as I left the second BB out!

 

[jeff33]

If I don't nuc the queen, I always do a vertical split using the JBM board (@jenkinsbrynmair you should patent this) with a fine mesh over the Qx. No need for extra floor and roof and easier to recombine as the bees are used to the scents.

 

[Erichalfbee]

When they recombine will they move into the upper or the lower brood box or fill all the available space?

You consolidate the boxes a few days later and take one away.

 

[Do224]

If I don't nuc the queen, I always do a vertical split using the JBM board (@jenkinsbrynmair you should patent this) with a fine mesh over the Qx. No need for extra floor and roof and easier to recombine as the bees are used to the scents.

Do you mean as a reactive measure after finding queen cells?

 

[Erichalfbee]

If I don't nuc the queen, I always do a vertical split using the JBM board (@jenkinsbrynmair you should patent this) with a fine mesh over the Qx. No need for extra floor and roof and easier to recombine as the bees are used to the scents.

How exactly Jeff?

 

[jeff33]

How exactly Jeff?

Now then. This is a method which has been used by some breeders in Europe for decades and Wally Shaw has been testing over the last few years.

When Swarm preps are made (ie: charged queen cells seen), I separate the brood + queen from flyers. My set-up looks like this: new BB on the bottom with 1 frame of BIAS, Qx, 2 super, demaree board with fine mesh over Qx, original brood box with all brood and queen. I tend to put the entrance of the demaree board facing the same direction as the bottom box. I have previously placed it the opposite way but was a pain when inspecting.

Within a few days all Qcs will have been teared down as all the flyers have left and returned to the bottom. The queen carries on laying as normal. In the bottom box flyers will make EQcs from the frame of BIAS. After 10 days I can either remove this frame and place the queen back down the bottom between 2 frames (the top will make a new queen or you can remove the fine mesh and run it as a demaree) or give them another frame of BIAS and repeat the process for another 10 days. After this the swarming fever will have passed and I will remove the demaree board and unite over the super with air freshener. I wait another 5-6 days and reconfigure the hive with 2BB or just a single 1.

I hope it makes sense.

@Do224 I hope it answers your question, yes as a reactive measure

 

[ericbeaumont]

will they move into the upper or the lower brood box or fill all the available space?

If united just before the main flow or thereabouts they may well use the top BB as a super, which when extracted will give you a stock of drawn comb.

if you just want a single bb colony

What if the bees need doubles?

consolidate the boxes a few days later and take one away

Only if you really need to.

 

[Erichalfbee]

I hope it makes sense.

@Do224 I hope it answers your question, yes as a reactive measure

It certainly answers mine.
Thanks Jeff

 

[Do224]

Now then. This is a method which has been used by some breeders in Europe for decades and Wally Shaw has been testing over the last few years.

When Swarm preps are made (ie: charged queen cells seen), I separate the brood + queen from flyers. My set-up looks like this: new BB on the bottom with 1 frame of BIAS, Qx, 2 super, demaree board with fine mesh over Qx, original brood box with all brood and queen. I tend to put the entrance of the demaree board facing the same direction as the bottom box. I have previously placed it the opposite way but was a pain when inspecting.

Within a few days all Qcs will have been teared down as all the flyers have left and returned to the bottom. The queen carries on laying as normal. In the bottom box flyers will make EQcs from the frame of BIAS. After 10 days I can either remove this frame and place the queen back down the bottom between 2 frames (the top will make a new queen or you can remove the fine mesh and run it as a demaree) or give them another frame of BIAS and repeat the process for another 10 days. After this the swarming fever will have passed and I will remove the demaree board and unite over the super with air freshener. I wait another 5-6 days and reconfigure the hive with 2BB or just a single 1.

I hope it makes sense.

@Do224 I hope it answers your question, yes as a reactive measure

very well explained, thanks . I’ll not be trying it any time soon but will keep it in mind for when I’ve got a bit more experience under my belt…

 

[Do224]

What if the bees need doubles?

I guess that’s exactly what I’m getting at…if they’ve made queen cells they probably want more space. That’s why I wasn’t sure if recombining would work

 

[Bluetractorman]

https://wbka.com/wp-content/uploads...to-Swarm-Control-2nd-edition-updatedJan21.pdfPage 24 of Wally Shaw's book outlines Snelgrove method 2 (modified), link above. I think is, broadly, the same thing.

 

[Lizbee]

Thank you Enrico, for your clear explanation of how to unite two hives when both have supers. I had been mulling over that one for ages !