rapid spring build up

[drstitson]

anyone have any suggestions (if likely to be possible at all) as to how best to promote strong/rapid late winter/spring colony build up in order to take advantage of the cherry blossom - we're talking period of around spring equinox - mid april.

realistically can all one hope for is a good supply of nectar/pollen for the growing colony (plus reciprocal pollination service) OR can a (small) honey harvest be a real possibility.

obviously the necessary brood will need to be laid by mid feb-late feb at latest.


using well positioned (sheltered plus sun) polyhives is an obvious first step.

 

[Haughton Honey]

I thought that brood build-up in polys was later than in wooden hives (seem to recall a comment about this from PolyHive, but as I keep wooden hives can't confirm this)?

I would suspect feeding something like Neopoll from, say, mid to late January would be something worth looking at.

Decent brood production requires decent pollen.

 

[MuswellMetro]

anyone have any suggestions (if likely to be possible at all) as to how best to promote strong/rapid late winter/spring colony build up in order to take advantage of the cherry blossom - we're talking period of around spring equinox - mid april.

realistically can all one hope for is a good supply of nectar/pollen for the growing colony (plus reciprocal pollination service) OR can a (small) honey harvest be a real possibility.

obviously the necessary brood will need to be laid by mid feb-late feb at latest.


using well positioned (sheltered plus sun) polyhives is an obvious first step.

in feb all i can suggest is pollen patties or such as neopoll or nektpoll pollen sustitute fondant and 1lb jar of 50% syrup per week

but i am not recommending this below as no idea if it works but this product is often on Ebay, others might have views or used it, could be fairy dust for all i know


http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Honey-bee-kee..._Pet_Supplies_Bee_Keeping&hash=item19ba335c84

 

[Finman]

anyone have any suggestions (if likely to be possible at all) as to how best to promote strong/rapid late winter/spring colony build up in order to take advantage of the cherry blossom - we're talking period of around spring equinox - mid april.

realistically can all one hope for is a good supply of nectar/pollen for the growing colony (plus reciprocal pollination service) OR can a (small) honey harvest be a real possibility..

when we speak about natural early spring build up, the most important is the size of winter cluster and a good pollen storage over winter.

Many talks about flowers which give pollen in early spring "enough" but bees cannot forage pollen enough in low temperature and during rain. to ensure the protein demands you need to give pollen patty.

It is said that carniolan has early build up. It is true but if you give pollen patty to hives, italian build up is as fast.

Colonies renew its bees before new honey yield will be foraged. from a big start of brooding it takes 2 months that wintered bees are all dead and new foragers are able to gather real surplus.

If the hive has winterd in under one box colony, it takes 3 months that it is able to forage real surplus.

With pollen patty feeding and with electrict heating I may get 3-fold spring build up in hives.
i must start at the beginning of April the patty feeding that bees are ready tto forage garden and dandelion yield 8 weeks later. only 2 box wintered hives can do that. Smaller hives just accelerate their brooding.

A hive may get 15 kg dandelion honey, but if it is rainy week after that, the hive eates all the nectar storage for its living. During good weather it may get 40 kg dandelion honey, but only 2 box hives.

Early build up means early swarming too.

.

 

[Finman]

I thought that brood build-up in polys was later than in wooden hives (seem to recall a comment about this from PolyHive, but as I keep wooden hives can't confirm this)?

I would suspect feeding something like Neopoll from, say, mid to late Januar.

i may confirm that build up in polyhives is faster than in uninsulated hives. But ofcourse, if you ventilate the heat out via mesh floor or via upper holes, bees must struckle for their life.


I make pollen patty from

2 part dry yeast
1 part soya flour
food oil
1 part irradiated pollen
50 % sugar
multivitamin+ C-vitamin
water
manganese (new to me)

normal hive consumes 0.5 kg a week that patty.


I can start patty feeding when snow has melted and bees get water from ground. Bees need 3-4 hours sun a day that they get drinking water enough to dilute pollen patty.

 

[RoofTops]

Artifical feeding is one solution but if you can find willow or another member of the Salix family in flower this will provide lots of early pollen - Feb/Mar depending on species and location. However, oil seed rape is usually in flower around here by mid April and my bees have been ready for it without any special treatment.

 

[drstitson]

Many thanks for that recipe Finman.

re the superboost - i had spotted that previously and the guy is actually just down the road from work. might be worth a try in one of the two hives.

 

[Finman]

Artifical feeding is one solution but if you can find willow or another member of the Salix family in flower this will provide lots of early pollen - Feb/Mar depending on species and location. However, oil seed rape is usually in flower around here by mid April and my bees have been ready for it without any special treatment.

yes but the weather. bees manage without patty treatment, ofcourse, like they do 90% of beekeepers.

Question is, do you try something else than natural proccess. most of beekeepers think that syrup feeding in spring helps but it only fills the valuable brood area.

One trick is to store pollen frames and give them to bees in spring. Idea is to help bees over bad weathers.

Beekeepers in Finland are angry to me when I speak about patty feeding. Very few use it. But most use sugar feeding and thinkt that it helps. It shows that they do not understand what is the idea.

.poor spring build up saves many beekeepers from swarming.

 

[drstitson]

apart from the spanish stuf from Sweinty, anyone else have any recommendations re reliable pollen suppliers????

 

[Black Comb]

Pollen patties were discussed in great detail this time last year.
Some people even made their own and used the wrong type of yeast!

Locally none of the experienced beeks use them as they all say there is sufficient pollen in this part of the UK in the spring.

The Neopoll from MBS is German pollen. (if my reading of the package is correct).

I'll give some to the nucs assuming they survive.

 

[oliver90owner]

anyone have any suggestions

What do the bees need to brood heavily? Five things.

Carbohydrate
Protein
Water
Warmth
Space

A shortage of any one of those will slow/delay/arrest spring build-up.

Which of those (they may be in need supplies of) needs to be assessed by the beekeeper. I favour a frame feeder (as Poly Hive advocates) to supply water, mainly - although it would contain a thin sugar syrup. Larvae feed needs a lot of water, which would normally be colleced as nectar, or from puddles, for dilution of honey. Replacement of excess honey stores with drawn comb (P H advocates hive tool work on the store frames (bruising the cappings) as well). Space may well be an important issue for those who have fed their bees on fondant instead of the bees making brooding space in the hive over the winter. She should be able to lay faster than new cell space becomes available.

Oh, and a sixth. A young queen would be preferable.

can a (small) honey harvest be a real possibility.

Yes, especially if there is OSR in range!!

Regards, RAB

 

[drstitson]

Many thanks for the very informative responses so far.

"can a (small) honey harvest be a real possibility.

Yes, especially if there is OSR in range!!"

No OSR here - aiming for (monofloral) cherry.

 

[RoofTops]

Cherry flowers yield a huge amount of nectar so good luck and lets hope the weather is kind at the critical time.

 

[Finman]

Pollen patties were discussed in great detail this time last year.
Some people even made their own and used the wrong type of yeast!

Locally none of the experienced beeks use them as they all say there is sufficient pollen in this part of the UK in the spring.

The Neopoll from MBS is German pollen. (if my reading of the package is correct).

I'll give some to the nucs assuming they survive.

i think that you have difficulties to bye irradiated pollen in UK.

There is no wrong type of yeast. If you use soya flour. Yeast is very necessary.
Soya hardens the patty and yeast makes it soft to bite. Patty must have 20% pollen that it is taty to bees.
From scimmed milk you do not get much help. It is a wrong stuff.

yOU SAY THAT THERE ARE POLLEN ENOUGH IN NATURE BUT WHY EXPERINCED BEEKS FEED SYRUP IN SPRING TO ACCELERATE BROODING. As very experinced beekeeper I say that beekeepers do not understand much about bee nutrition. forum is full of nonsence even if the issue has been researches very carefully during last 50 years.

.

 

[Finman]

Cherry flowers yield a huge amount of nectar so good luck and lets hope the weather is kind at the critical time.

.
I do not know when cherry blooms in Italy or in UK.

In Finland Cherry is very early to bloom. Hives are not in condition to forage surpluss from it.
It blooms 2 weeks earlier than winter rape. Willows bloom at same time. Weathers are biggest promblem in early foraging.

Japanese pink cherry blooms 4 weeks earlier than winter rape.

 

[Finman]

anyone have any suggestions

What do the bees need to brood heavily? Five things.

Carbohydrate
Protein
Water
Warmth
Space

A shortage of any one of those will slow/delay/arrest spring build-up.

Which of those (they may be in need supplies of) needs to be assessed by the beekeeper. I favour a frame feeder (as Poly Hive advocates) to supply water, mainly - although it would contain a thin sugar syrup. Larvae feed needs a lot of water, which would normally be colleced as nectar, or from puddles, for dilution of honey. Replacement of excess honey stores with drawn comb (P H advocates hive tool work on the store frames (bruising the cappings) as well). Space may well be an important issue for those who have fed their bees on fondant instead of the bees making brooding space in the hive over the winter. She should be able to lay faster than new cell space becomes available.

Regards, RAB

a good theory but nothing to do with practice.

.

 

[drstitson]

As i stated in my original post the target period is from 21st March to 15th April (or thereabouts) - spring was late here last year (and then the Vignola area was hit by a heavy storm at the **** of the cherry harvest in early June).

a small producer i know of lost 50,000 euro revenue alone.

 

[Skyhook]

With pollen patty feeding and with electric heating I may get 3-fold spring build up in hives.

I've not come across much about heating, other than for overwintering (basically don't). I am hoping for as early a build-up as possible, to get a good rape crop followed by splitting the colony. If we have a cold spring, would it be beneficial to insert a 7 watt heating pad into the hive, as long as they have enough stores (inc. protein). If so, would the pad be best below or above the frames (as with nuc heating)?

 

[Black Comb]

My comment about the "wrong" type of yeast referred to HP's escapade last year which he kindly posted on here.

http://beekeepingforum.co.uk/showthread.php?t=3511

 

[victor meldrew]

Cherry flowers yield a huge amount of nectar so good luck and lets hope the weather is kind at the critical time.

I don't think the Japanese flowering variety have much to offer (unless I've been misled

John Wilkinson